Vegetables and Fruit forum: Lemon Tree Pics - what's deficiency are these leaves showing??

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Orange County, CA (Zone 10a)
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maxcaviar
May 17, 2015 7:14 PM CST
can anyone tell why my lemon tree leaves look like this (attached)? i assumed that is was a nitrogen deficiency, but it really hasn't changed after giving it plenty of N.
Thumb of 2015-05-18/maxcaviar/0e9253


Thumb of 2015-05-18/maxcaviar/854dad

Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
May 17, 2015 7:47 PM CST
Maybe this link will help identify your problem: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/C107/m107bpleaftwigdis.html

From what I saw "Phytotoxicity" from simazine could be the issue but others will give you better advice, I'm sure.
Orange County, CA (Zone 10a)
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maxcaviar
May 17, 2015 10:36 PM CST
yes, that really does look like it, huh? thanks. looking into what i can do to correct at this point.
Name: Judy
Simpsonville SC (Zone 7b)
Plant and/or Seed Trader Peonies Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 I helped beta test the first seed swap
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SCButtercup
May 18, 2015 2:59 AM CST
Well I am no expert but I do grow a lemon Tree in pot on the deck. Each spring it will look like your sample unless I add iron to its pot in the form of Ironite. Also a 10-10-10 fert and Epsom salts.
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
May 18, 2015 7:18 AM CST
Judy grows the lemon tree so I'd listen to her! I do use Ironite and it works fast.
Name: Paul
Nullawarre, Victoria,Australia (Zone 10b)
Region: Australia
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vanozzi
May 18, 2015 8:04 AM CST
G'day Max --I think your lemon tree may be suffering from ''lime induced chlorosis'' probably caused by lime leaching from the render in your brick wall.If this is the case, bring the PH below 7, mulch with pine bark ( not spent mushroom compost), apply iron chelates and long term, agricultural sulphur, fertilizing yearly with ''citrus fertilizer around the drip line.

The main cause of citrus yellows is either iron deficiency (as above), magnesium deficiency, or nitrogen deficiency.Iron deficiency leaves the veins green with some yellowing between, whereas magnesium deficiency can show a similar pattern, but with a marked ''inverted V'' green pattern and some leaves will turn completely yellow.If it is a magnesium deficiency , still check your PH and apply epsom salts (magnesium sulphate), sprayed and watered in.
Hope that helps.
Different latitudes, different attitudes
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Shadegardener
May 18, 2015 9:06 AM CST
Barging in - this question comes just in time. My 5 yo potted Meyer has gone into decline after producing 15 lemons (I culled half to avoid damage to the tree). After moving it outdoors (avoiding temps below 40 at night), it hasn't been happy. The advice and the link are perfect! Thanks! Question: when I prune this small tree, it seems to suffer die-back on the cut branches. Is there a different method of pruning for citrus or should I avoid pruning altogether?
Orange County, CA (Zone 10a)
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maxcaviar
May 18, 2015 9:23 AM CST
real great info! thanks to all.
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
May 18, 2015 9:47 AM CST
Let us know how it all works out for your lemon tree.
Orange County, CA (Zone 10a)
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maxcaviar
May 18, 2015 11:26 AM CST
ok, i'll try to rectify the problem and report back with good news, thanks again
Orange County, CA (Zone 10a)
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maxcaviar
May 26, 2015 11:27 PM CST
well i had hoped that the addition of Iron would clear the problem up, but it's been over a week since first applying it and i haven't seen any noticeable difference. i've also continued to give it regular citrus fertilizer (dr. earth). i will try some epsom salts now and see where it goes.
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
May 27, 2015 7:20 AM CST
The Ironite worked fast for me so now I'm wondering if it's more serious or maybe it just takes longer with a tree than an iris.
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Shadegardener
May 27, 2015 7:43 AM CST
I've read that for citrus, iron (if it's deficient) doesn't improve the appearance of existing leaves but new leaves will look healthier. Wonder if that's accurate. I use a chelated liquid iron.

Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
May 27, 2015 7:56 AM CST
It makes sense. Let's all "root" for the new leaves.
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Shadegardener
May 27, 2015 8:00 AM CST
Mine looked rather sickly when I first brought it outside where it gets rain water now instead of city water (during the winter). While I let the tap water sit for a few days before using, I wonder it potted citrus are more sensitive to the chemicals in city water.
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
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RickCorey
May 28, 2015 2:42 PM CST
You might want to spray a little chelated iron on the leaves. The plant might be able to take it up from foliar feeding even though the roots are unable to.

A wrong soil pH can interfere with iron absorption. Iron needs some acidity to be available (pH 5 to 6.5). As Paul said, excess lime or any other cause of high pH could have made iron unavailable in the soil.

Can you check the pH of the soil in the pot, several inches down?

Some other mineral, if present in excess, can also interfere with iron's availability. Was it Phosphorus?

("At alkaline pH values, greater than pH 7.5 for example, phosphate ions tend to react quickly with calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) to form less soluble compounds. At acidic pH values, phosphate ions react with aluminum (Al) and iron (Fe) to again form less soluble compounds.")

http://www.nutrientstewardship.com/implement-4rs/article/soi...

I was never able to distinguish between iron deficiency and magnesium deficiency, but I think Mg is easy to absorb compared to iron. Still, spraying a few leaves with Epsom salts is easy and rules out any problem related to roots.

Wikipedia says that a manganese deficiency is easy to confuse with iron deficiency. I don't know about that.

I forget: have you flushed the pot or assured that salinity is no problem?

Are you able to, or have you already, looked at the roots to see if it is pot-bound or the mix has broken down and become compacted? It's five years old, has it been re-potted?

Orange County, CA (Zone 10a)
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maxcaviar
May 28, 2015 10:22 PM CST
my tree is not in a pot. it's in the ground, about 15' tall. what is the easiest, most reliable way of checking ph anyway? and when you test it, should the soil be removed and mixed with water beforehand?
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Shadegardener
May 29, 2015 8:47 AM CST
For foliar application, what's the rate for either chelated iron or epsom salts? I have a hard time telling the two deficiencies apart as well.
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier
pirl
May 29, 2015 8:53 AM CST
I've never heard of Epsom Salt harming any plant. You can start with one tablespoon dissolved in a gallon of lukewarm water, though many people use half a cup of ES.
[Last edited by pirl - May 29, 2015 8:54 AM (+)]
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Orange County, CA (Zone 10a)
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maxcaviar
May 29, 2015 10:28 AM CST
re the epsom salt, i used this guy's formula - rightly or wrongly, i'll let you know how it goes . . .

"Dave2, the formula for plants in the ground is to calculate the square footage under the drip line. If your drip line is 3 feet (tree circumference) then us A=Pi x R squared. A=3.14 x 3 x 3 = 28.26 sq feet. Then feed a tablespoon per square foot and water it in well."

posted here --> http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1823171/epsom-salt

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