Daylilies forum: Bud and Branch Update Day!

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Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Jul 22, 2015 5:58 PM CST
Narrowing it down would give better info. I'm thinking some states might need to be broken into several parts. Eastern vs western Oklahoma. Texas might be broken into 4-5 sections - lots of variation north to south and east to west here. And states with lots of elevation differences like North Carolina and Colorado wouldn't have the same growing conditions. On the other hand, a lot of coastal areas in different states could possibly be put together. That could be useful because I think the coastal areas grow a lot of daylilies.
Donald
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 22, 2015 6:03 PM CST
I really don't think with daylilies we would have to get too specific, that might complicate things too much. Certainly, the more specific the better, and for those people who don't mind sharing the city and state that would even be better, but some people don't like to get too specific along those lines on the internet.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jul 22, 2015 6:13 PM CST
So where would this information be stored?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 22, 2015 6:30 PM CST
I have no idea about that(where to store it), in the thread for the short term, anything else would be up to Dave I think. We can just talk about the ideas, and work with what we have available at the time. There might not even be enough interest to keep a thread going? I feel sure if it were successful and drew a lot of attention, something could be worked out.
Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
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Dennis616
Jul 22, 2015 7:35 PM CST
I'm a little late to the party as I see many more posts since I started writing this, but just thought I'd throw these thoughts out there. Very interesting topic!

I think there are just too many variables involved to try to take a large number of them into account without it being a huge undertaking. My thought would be to try and get maximum and minimum branch and bud counts under “realistic” conditions, which I suspect is the original idea behind a daylily branch count.

By realistic I mean throwing out only the extremes. For example, exceptionally poor conditions like growing them during extreme drought or in Siberia, or exceptionally good conditions like a season where everything must have been perfect and the plant produced 6 branches instead of 3 or 4 every other season. Otherwise anyone living in a “normal” populated area, with half-way “normal” growing conditions, would submit branch and bud counts. By eliminating extremes the data should be fairly representative of what a majority of the plants will be grown under.

If these realistic maximum and minimum values result in a branch count description of, say, 3-4, I think that would probably be sufficient for most people. However, a branch description of 2-6 might leave people wanting to know more.

It would be more work, potentially a lot more work, but of course additional information about the growing conditions could be attached to the performance data. This could be limited to a few key values such as cold climate zone of the area, overall moisture conditions for the growing season, and cooling degree days for the season. (Soil nutrient conditions, especially nitrogen, would also be critical but nearly impossible to get values for). This data may then enable a more specific association between growing conditions and large differences in the maximum and the minimum performance of the plant.

The value of collecting this additional data to generate this correlation would depend on the number of daylilies that have a relatively large variation in their branch and bud counts, and the difficulty in collecting and working with the additional data.

Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
Dog Lover Hybridizer Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Photography Keeper of Poultry Organic Gardener
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Char
Jul 22, 2015 7:49 PM CST

Moderator

beckygardener said:I just checked the Plant Database and there are options at the very bottom of each cultivar listing that includes the following options:

Adding Actions:

» Upload a photo
» Post a comment
» File a growers report

We just need more folks adding comments about each cultivar, IMHO. I will certainly start adding comments when I can. Unfortunately, I don't have that many cultivars, but will add info about the ones I have. Most likely next year, because mine are all new to my garden this year and are still adapting to their new home. Smiling


The daylily database is the place to record and store this information. Becky has explained the database system that is already in place on this site for contributing and storing information on individual daylilies. When you look up a registered daylily in the database scroll down to where you will see Adding Actions. There you will find the link for "post a comment". If you have an ATP plant list you can file a growers report which can also be seen when accessing a plant page in the database.

Dave does run special promotions aimed at encouraging members to fill out the comment section. I believe we do this in the winter when more people have time to spend at the computer. You could ask in the Site Talk forum or contact Dave to ask for more information on when the next one might be.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 22, 2015 8:19 PM CST
I agree with all the above, but I see the results, people are constantly asking for more comments but the result is very few people are adding them. That is the whole point! Yes we have a system, yes it is a good system, but no it is not getting the comments added. This is just an attempt I think, to come up with some way of stimulating the participation of people to make comments on plants they grow. There may just not be enough interest for it to happen, but I saw a lot of people perk up and pay attention in the recent threads with comments on specific cultivars. They were some of the most interesting posts I have read lately. It seems everyone needs more info on the plants they are fixing to spend their limited money on . They are so many blooms out there that look almost alike, without comments on performance it is easy to make a wrong choice. Even if there is no other bloom that comes close to the one you just fell in love with, if it only does well after sub zero winters, and you live in Florida, you just made a bad purchase. I looked up every daylily in the database I was interested in, I went down to the comments section checking each of them out, and the great majority nad no comments at all. Now I know "that other gardening site" has had years to accumulate their comments, but we need to do better.
So I am for any ideas that will help stir participation.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jul 22, 2015 8:20 PM CST
How about folks here taking more photos of their daylily branching and buds? Most of the photos submitted to the database are of blooms. But maybe we need to submit a photo or two of the foliage, the scape, etc. more often. The WHOLE plant, not just the flowers. A picture can speak a thousand words! Add a comment to each photo as well about the plant growth in the photo.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Jul 22, 2015 8:23 PM (+)]
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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jul 22, 2015 9:01 PM CST
Maybe Dave would be willing to award more acorns (perhaps 2 instead of 1) for photos of branches and foliage and entire plant photos instead of just blooms. AND .... comments to the daylily database about the growth habit of different cultivars. Maybe do a special acorn week of allowing submissions to generate such data ... AND extra acorns! What do you think?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Jul 22, 2015 9:55 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #909998 (9)
Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
Dog Lover Daylilies Organic Gardener Houseplants Celebrating Gardening: 2015 I helped beta test the first seed swap
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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DogsNDaylilies
Jul 23, 2015 5:29 AM CST
Dennis - yes, exactly! I agree with your comments. My thought is that we have a bunch of plants in the database with registered bud/branch counts and I know that these are largely (or entirely) the registered numbers as they grew in the hybridizers gardens, but the fact that we have/list specific values for them suggests that we assume there is enough consistency in the cultivars to even record such data and make it official. Therefore, I assume that we can do the same with all cultivars and come up with the 'typical' bud/branch count.

Larry - You said "That is the whole point! Yes we have a system, yes it is a good system, but no it is not getting the comments added. This is just an attempt I think, to come up with some way of stimulating the participation of people to make comments on plants they grow." ....and yes, that is exactly right! I'm trying to do something to create greater participation in something that I view as fairly critical to hybridizing.

Becky - that's a good idea and it could help. I know I have tried looking at full-plant pictures and bud pictures for different cultivars and very few entries have them; but I'm not convinced doubling the acorn reward would create as much participation as a dedicated thread would. The acorns are probably a good incentive for newbies, but I wonder if once people get enough acorns to satisfy their 'badge purchases', it stops becoming as much of an incentive.

Someone had previously suggested that we create threads for each individual cultivar, but I think that's too difficult of a way to handle this, especially considering how many daylilies there are, and it would lose participation because there would be too many threads created for people to sift through. And if it happened and we did, say, 1 cultivar per day, many people would miss out if they don't regularly check ATP, are on vacation, etc...And some cultivars just aren't very popular, so few to no people have them and there would be a lot of empty threads.

I am starting to lean in the direction of doing threads with lists the more I think of it. If we did, maybe we could just do it alphabetically (that way people can sort of prepare for the following week by going out and recording info for the next alphabetical set). However we do it, though, it would probably be best if we let people post to it for a set amount of time and then, after that amount of time, for any cultivars that were in the thread that didn't get any bud/branch/foliage information posted, maybe we could create that field on the cultivar's page and then highlight it. And maybe we could use Becky's idea at that point! Smiling So the cultivars that didn't get responses for bud and/or branch count could look something like this:

Thumb of 2015-07-23/DogsNDaylilies/9fdb14

Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Birds Region: Michigan Vegetable Grower Hummingbirder Heucheras Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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Hemlady
Jul 23, 2015 5:34 AM CST
I know when you register a daylily the AHS requires you give them the bud count and branching of the cultivar. That doesn't mean you will necessarily get that count in your zone. I took some of my plants north to my cottage and notice that their bud count is much less in a colder zone.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
Dog Lover Daylilies Organic Gardener Houseplants Celebrating Gardening: 2015 I helped beta test the first seed swap
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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DogsNDaylilies
Jul 23, 2015 5:51 AM CST
Here's a thought for how a thread might go. Let me know what you think and/or how it could be improved.

"Alright, everyone, this week we're looking for Information on Bud Count, Branching, Foliage Height, and Scape Info on the following cultivars:


Aaron Brown
Addie Branch Smith
Addis Ababa
Admiral's Braid
Adorable Tiger
Africa
Always Afternoon
All Fired Up
Almond Puff
American Freedom
American Revolution
Ancient Wisdom
Alabama Jubilee
All American Chief
American Doll
Apache War Dance
Archaeopteryx
Asian Fairy Bluebird
Ashton's Giggles
Autumn Wood
Avante Garde
Annabelle's Blush
Answering Angels
Antique Rose
Applique
Apricot Sparkles
Arctic Lace
Autumn Jewels
Autumn Minaret
Awesome Blossom
Aerial Applique
Absolute Treasure
Alexa Kathryn
Autumn Red
Adamas
All About Eve
Alpine Mist
Amanda's Little Red Shoes
America's Most Wanted
Amethyst Art
Awesome Artist
Awesome Candy
Aztec Headdress
Azure Wings


Please remember that posts with comments not directly addressing the requested information will be deleted. We ask that responses are given based on established plants (not newly planted) and that these are your actual observations. Please do not guess at any information that you don't know, only respond with information that you have.

Suggested response format/example:

Cultivar: Almond Puff
Bud Count: 23
Branch Count: 4
Foliage Info: 18", bright green, wide leaves
Scape: moderately thick
zone: 6a

"

Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
Dog Lover Daylilies Organic Gardener Houseplants Celebrating Gardening: 2015 I helped beta test the first seed swap
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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DogsNDaylilies
Jul 23, 2015 5:59 AM CST
Hemlady said:I know when you register a daylily the AHS requires you give them the bud count and branching of the cultivar. That doesn't mean you will necessarily get that count in your zone. I took some of my plants north to my cottage and notice that their bud count is much less in a colder zone.


Oh, is it a requirement now? Are you sure it's both bud and branch count? I haven't registered anything yet myself, but I've had something registered for me for a name I picked out and I noticed on the hybridizer's website that he didn't include branching information for that cultivar, which makes me wonder if only bud count is required.

If that's the case, though, then maybe we only need to request this info for cultivars that were registered prior to whatever year they instituted the bud/branch requirement.


I also just realized that this could also be an opportunity to get notes on fragrance and to encourage people to submit pictures directly to the database for cultivars that don't have pictures.
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Birds Region: Michigan Vegetable Grower Hummingbirder Heucheras Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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Hemlady
Jul 23, 2015 6:37 AM CST
The last time I registered a flower which was about 2 years ago, it was required.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 23, 2015 6:38 AM CST
I think only the items with the asterisks are required when registering a plant.
http://www.daylilies.org/AHSre...
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 23, 2015 6:54 AM CST
How about instead of Dave giving an extra acorn for comments, the people who grow the plant or want to grow the plant acknowledge the comments with an acorn?
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Birds Region: Michigan Vegetable Grower Hummingbirder Heucheras Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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Hemlady
Jul 23, 2015 7:07 AM CST
Didn't realize that Larry. I always put those stats down when I register. So it is optional then???
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Jul 23, 2015 7:10 AM CST
I have never registered a plant, I don't hybridize, but if only the items with an asterisk are mandatory, then yes than means the others are optional.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jul 23, 2015 7:25 AM CST
What happens if someone adds the info to a particular cultivar, but gets no acorns for their submission?

I say that because it may require acorns from folks who don't have acorns to reward others with. (I say this from experience, because I have given out a lot of acorns but then ran out.)

I think we should invite Dave in on this conversation to see what he thinks. Which is also why I think the site administrator (or crew) should give out the acorns automatically for submissions.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
Image
beckygardener
Jul 23, 2015 7:27 AM CST
DogsNDaylilies said:Dennis - yes, exactly! I agree with your comments. My thought is that we have a bunch of plants in the database with registered bud/branch counts and I know that these are largely (or entirely) the registered numbers as they grew in the hybridizers gardens, but the fact that we have/list specific values for them suggests that we assume there is enough consistency in the cultivars to even record such data and make it official. Therefore, I assume that we can do the same with all cultivars and come up with the 'typical' bud/branch count.

Larry - You said "That is the whole point! Yes we have a system, yes it is a good system, but no it is not getting the comments added. This is just an attempt I think, to come up with some way of stimulating the participation of people to make comments on plants they grow." ....and yes, that is exactly right! I'm trying to do something to create greater participation in something that I view as fairly critical to hybridizing.

Becky - that's a good idea and it could help. I know I have tried looking at full-plant pictures and bud pictures for different cultivars and very few entries have them; but I'm not convinced doubling the acorn reward would create as much participation as a dedicated thread would. The acorns are probably a good incentive for newbies, but I wonder if once people get enough acorns to satisfy their 'badge purchases', it stops becoming as much of an incentive.

Someone had previously suggested that we create threads for each individual cultivar, but I think that's too difficult of a way to handle this, especially considering how many daylilies there are, and it would lose participation because there would be too many threads created for people to sift through. And if it happened and we did, say, 1 cultivar per day, many people would miss out if they don't regularly check ATP, are on vacation, etc...And some cultivars just aren't very popular, so few to no people have them and there would be a lot of empty threads.

I am starting to lean in the direction of doing threads with lists the more I think of it. If we did, maybe we could just do it alphabetically (that way people can sort of prepare for the following week by going out and recording info for the next alphabetical set). However we do it, though, it would probably be best if we let people post to it for a set amount of time and then, after that amount of time, for any cultivars that were in the thread that didn't get any bud/branch/foliage information posted, maybe we could create that field on the cultivar's page and then highlight it. And maybe we could use Becky's idea at that point! Smiling So the cultivars that didn't get responses for bud and/or branch count could look something like this:

Thumb of 2015-07-23/DogsNDaylilies/9fdb14



I REALLY like this screen saver photo idea for the database. It could also be used for other plants as well!!! Great idea, DND!!!!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Jul 23, 2015 7:29 AM (+)]
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