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Name: Beverly
Manzanillo, Colima, Mexico (Zone 11a)
Butterflies Organic Gardener Tropicals Native Plants and Wildflowers Seed Starter
Image
vitrsna
Jul 26, 2015 8:00 PM CST
Good idea. I think you would be more effective in contacting Brian Brown than i would be, so that would be my preference. Whenever you think is appropriate is fine with me. If you prefer that i do this, i have no problem. I think you are more qualified for this job especially if you have other matters pending. I will receive emails of activity on the thread so you wouldn't need to keep me informed about what's going on. How does this work for you?
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Jul 27, 2015 3:29 AM CST
I'm happy to contact bbrown, I've been a member of diptera.info for 8 years now and most of the experts know me, no problem. Smiling
Name: Beverly
Manzanillo, Colima, Mexico (Zone 11a)
Butterflies Organic Gardener Tropicals Native Plants and Wildflowers Seed Starter
Image
vitrsna
Jul 27, 2015 8:02 AM CST
Thumbs up
Name: Beverly
Manzanillo, Colima, Mexico (Zone 11a)
Butterflies Organic Gardener Tropicals Native Plants and Wildflowers Seed Starter
Image
vitrsna
Jul 27, 2015 11:00 AM CST
Janet, i do have a second photo of the Bee Fly that might help you on the quest. Neither of the photos are as good as i wish they were but this one is at a different angle so it might help


Thumb of 2015-07-27/vitrsna/ad50ad

Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Jul 27, 2015 3:08 PM CST
I saw that photo on the link Celia provided, it's the wing venation which is the main clue but you could add the photo to your diptera.info thread to bring it to the top. 115 hits so far, still just on the first page of the Diptera adults.

Name: Beverly
Manzanillo, Colima, Mexico (Zone 11a)
Butterflies Organic Gardener Tropicals Native Plants and Wildflowers Seed Starter
Image
vitrsna
Jul 27, 2015 8:48 PM CST
Second photo posted on diptera.info puts us back on top...124 hits. Now at least i know what Diptera means. Rolling my eyes.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Aug 25, 2015 4:03 PM CST
Sorry to leave this for so long!

I've just contacted Brian Brown on diptera.info, let's hope he gets the email (he should) and replies.
Name: Beverly
Manzanillo, Colima, Mexico (Zone 11a)
Butterflies Organic Gardener Tropicals Native Plants and Wildflowers Seed Starter
Image
vitrsna
Aug 25, 2015 4:34 PM CST
That's wonderful Janet...I hope it is of some interest to him. Maybe it can be the first entry into the ATP bug database which exists only in my dreams and most likely always will. Hilarious! I always look at the title of my thread and am embarrassed to have assumed it is a "bee". The other day i was trying to imagine a garden with no bugs or other critters. I couldn't even imagine it. With no bugs, it would hardly qualify as a garden imho. What do you think of the idea of having an ATP bug database...thumbs up, thumbs down, don't care? This is not a poll, i'm just curious.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Aug 25, 2015 5:12 PM CST
Discovering the huge variety of insects in your garden, when once you may barely have noticed anything other than the odd 'blue bottle' or 'green bottle' fly, is quite an eye opener. To see the insects of course you have to have a garden full of plants to attract them, that is the secret. I feel very protective of my self made organic wildlife garden, so much so that I couldn't think of anyone else being the keeper of it, while I am on this earth that is and when I am no longer on this earth I despair what might become of it so I'm not going anywhere. Hilarious!

You have made the same mistake we all make when starting out, first we notice the pretty things like butterflies, then along come bees with an almost unbelievable number of species. Then one day you spy something which looks all the world like a bee, it's usually something like Eristalis tenax which confuses us. That is when the road to awareness seems to take hold, you will start to spot more and more strange and interesting bugs and insects right under your nose which you never knew existed. There's so many species of insects it makes the mind boggle, and very few of us have an inkling of what there is to be found.

The possibility of a bug database has been raised. Having been interested in the subject for around 10 years now, and conquered much of what I have found in the way of identification, I know how difficult it is to get a positive ID for so many insects and bugs. There's many more where you are than what we have, and believe me, it's more than enough what we have to identify many of them. Some are easy, many are difficult if not impossible to go further than to genus level. Diptera is a particulary difficult subject, for example we have around 70 species of one genus of fly of which most can't be identified to species level without a 'specimen' and even they you would need an expert who has keys, and who can interpret those keys. When you get a fly which is around 3mm long that is no mean task. Bees, we only have around 270 species, some very rare and most of which I won't come across, but there will be many more where you are, in North America there's around 4,000 species so you can imagine the difficulties.

http://bugguide.net/node/view/...

So, my view is it isn't even worth starting on a bug database as there would be so many people wanting to call e.g. a 'green bottle' one species which is usually Lucilia sericata, where in fact there's several species which are very difficult to separate. I'm afraid credibility would be zero.
Name: Beverly
Manzanillo, Colima, Mexico (Zone 11a)
Butterflies Organic Gardener Tropicals Native Plants and Wildflowers Seed Starter
Image
vitrsna
Aug 25, 2015 10:44 PM CST
Yes, i knew you would have an interesting perspective on the subject Smiling The neotropical region has an unfathomable number of plants and insects that can only be identified in a laboratory. I am accustomed to hearing that the "genus" is the closest we can get in terms of a true id. George Beccaloni, etc, of the Natural History Museum in London put together (bi-linqually in English and Spanish) a "Catalogue of the hostplants of the Neotropical butterflies". When i first heard about this work, i could hardly believe and anyone, even with a group, could possibly put together such a catalogue. I looked everywhere for this book and was told i would need to either talk to George Beccaloni or the publishers (S.E.A. in Spain) to obtain a copy so i wrote to both places. George was on sabbatical at the time but i received a copy from the S.E.A. in Spain. I heard from George some time later, told him i had received a copy from the publisher and congratulated him on what must have been a very difficult project. I also mentioned how delighted i was to discover this work and how much i appreciate and reference it. He was so grateful to hear of my appreciation, all of a sudden we were "colleagues" (which of course we are most certainly not Hilarious! ). He told me it was the most difficult and challenging task he had ever set about, not to mention just plain miserable. After this work, he ditched neotropical, butterflies, and hostplants and has now turned his attention to Cockroaches.

I agree that ATP could not get close to a credible bug database, at the same time i think of all the ID's being done on bugs forum, as well as the butterflies, bees, and other garden insects threads that it is a little bit sad not to catalogue that info into a database where it might be found again, useful to someone. Information tends to be lost if it remains on the threads, but this is not really an agenda for me to champion or nix...just mildly interested.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Aug 26, 2015 8:18 AM CST
I almost feel sorry for George Beccaloni for having made himself so miserable over such a worthy project to have ditched it. Hilarious! Cockroaches might be a little more simple, and maybe even interesting, whatever, it's a new challenge and he has mastered one subject so another must be, in a way, satisfying.

Pemberley books here has an amazing selection of books on Entemology, they have the one you mention. I can see how difficult it must have been!

18,000+ hostplant records (3,656 of which have not previously been published). The Neotropical region (Central/South America and the Caribbean) has 7,783 butterfly species, of which this book contains hostplant records for 1,991 (representing 614 of the 957 genera from the region)


http://www.pemberleybooks.com/...

There's not many people on ATP asking for identification of insects, those who want a name will usually get one or something close. I know how enthusiasm can run away with people though, accepting the impossibilities isn't always easy. If, like myself, anyone becomes so obsessed with knowing what they have, that requires joining specialist forums, getting a camera and lens capable of increasing your chances of a positive ID, and a mountain of determination to conquer.
Name: Beverly
Manzanillo, Colima, Mexico (Zone 11a)
Butterflies Organic Gardener Tropicals Native Plants and Wildflowers Seed Starter
Image
vitrsna
Aug 26, 2015 8:32 AM CST
"mountain of determination to conquer." Nicely put JR and somewhat of a miracle that George and team brought their "Catalogue" to a conclusion for which i, personally, am truly grateful (not to mention "amazed").

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