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Avatar for Chillybean
Aug 2, 2015 2:42 PM CST
Name: Kim
Iowa (Zone 5a)
I kill ornamentals... on purpose.
Enjoys or suffers cold winters Spiders! Critters Allowed Birds Houseplants I helped beta test the first seed swap
Region: Nebraska Keeper of Poultry Rabbit Keeper Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Procrastinator Garden Ideas: Level 2
I planted this on the north side of my house in 2012. I purchased this from a general purpose nursery when I started looking for native to US plants. When asking for natives, the lady showed me this "Black-eyed Susan". I didn't pay attention to Latin names then.

It was only because someone recently told me Black-eyed Susans are a full sun plant, that I now question what this may be. It has grown and blossomed every year since I got it, but this year, the Wild Bergamot is nearly snuffing it out. I hope to transplant it to an area with more room.

But I would like to know its Latin name, if possible. I have Black-eyed Susan (Rudbeckia hirta) in our prairie patch and the leaves are smaller than this. I would say the length of this leaf is about three inches.

Thumb of 2015-08-02/Chillybean/2bd64e

Here is one of the flowers that struggled to show its face.

Thumb of 2015-08-02/Chillybean/5a029d

Thank you for your help.
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Aug 2, 2015 3:02 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Region: Ukraine Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener Houseplants
The leaves don't look like Rudbeckia; kinda thought maybe Helianthus Sunroots (Helianthus tuberosus) but leaves aren't right for that either. Maybe a type of Silphium?
http://garden.org/plants/searc...
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Aug 2, 2015 3:15 PM CST
Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
Hi Everybody!! Let us talk native.
Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Butterflies Garden Ideas: Master Level Forum moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Birds Cat Lover
I think it is Rudbeckia fulgida, http://plants.usda.gov/java/la...
Wildflowers are the Smiles of Nature.
Gardening with Texas Native Plants and Wildflowers.
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Aug 2, 2015 3:19 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Region: Ukraine Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener Houseplants
Hurray! @frostweed Josephine! The leaves looked too fat to me for Rudbeckia but it sure looks like it might be Black-Eyed Susan (Rudbeckia fulgida)
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Aug 2, 2015 3:32 PM CST

Dog Lover Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
find a plant that has these stunted leaves

Thumb of 2015-08-02/bamira/69668c

I tip my hat to you.
I don't think that it is Rudbeckia, leaves has a stem
Rudbeckia leaves not stem, leaves on the base taper
Last edited by bamira Aug 2, 2015 3:47 PM Icon for preview
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Aug 2, 2015 3:33 PM CST
Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
Hi Everybody!! Let us talk native.
Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Butterflies Garden Ideas: Master Level Forum moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Birds Cat Lover
I think that the leaves of Rudbeckia fulgida are very variable.
Wildflowers are the Smiles of Nature.
Gardening with Texas Native Plants and Wildflowers.
Image
Aug 2, 2015 3:45 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Region: Ukraine Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener Houseplants
Leaves can be variable in shape, size etc. Leaves can be lance shaped or ovate, lobed or unlobed, teeth or no teeth along the edges.

http://hvp.osu.edu/pocketgarde...
http://www.wildflower.org/plan...
https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/pl...
https://gobotany.newenglandwil...
http://theplantencyclopedia.or...
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Aug 2, 2015 4:06 PM CST
Name: Catmint/Robin
PNW WA half hour south of Olym (Zone 8a)
Region: Pacific Northwest Region: Mid-Atlantic Region: Maryland Butterflies Bee Lover Native Plants and Wildflowers
Echinacea Azaleas Forum moderator Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015
frostweed said:I think that the leaves of Rudbeckia fulgida are very variable.


I agree! I have several types of Rudbeckia, and some have narrow leaves and some have wider leaves.
"One of the pleasures of being a gardener comes from the enjoyment you get looking at other people's yards”
― Thalassa Cruso
Avatar for Chillybean
Aug 2, 2015 5:47 PM CST
Name: Kim
Iowa (Zone 5a)
I kill ornamentals... on purpose.
Enjoys or suffers cold winters Spiders! Critters Allowed Birds Houseplants I helped beta test the first seed swap
Region: Nebraska Keeper of Poultry Rabbit Keeper Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Procrastinator Garden Ideas: Level 2
Thank you for the replies, everyone. So it really is a "Black-eyed Susan". These common names... At least I now have the correct Latin name. Smiling This brings a question...

With the Latin name being Rudbeckia fulgida var. sullvantii, what does "var." mean? I've seen the abbreviation for subspecies, so this must be something different. I looked at the USDA site and it lists this plant, but does not have a page for it.
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Aug 2, 2015 6:06 PM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Region: Ukraine Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener Houseplants
I'm not sure but I think it means variety.

From Wikipedia:
var
see varietas.
varietas (variety in common usage, abbreviated as var.)
(Latin) in the Linnean hierarchy a rank below that of species, between the ranks of subspecies and form.
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Aug 2, 2015 6:07 PM CST
Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
Hi Everybody!! Let us talk native.
Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Butterflies Garden Ideas: Master Level Forum moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Birds Cat Lover
"var." means variety. USDA doesn't have a page for varieties, as far as i know. They only have a page for the main species.
Wildflowers are the Smiles of Nature.
Gardening with Texas Native Plants and Wildflowers.
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Aug 2, 2015 6:23 PM CST

Dog Lover Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
the basic name Rudbeckia fulgida
Genus: Rudbeckia
species: fulgida (spec.)
lower grades :
subspecies - subsp.
varieta - var.
form - f.

Watch - sp. - all species I tip my hat to you.
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Aug 2, 2015 6:27 PM CST

Dog Lover Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
frostweed said:"var." means variety. USDA doesn't have a page for varieties, as far as i know. They only have a page for the main species.


http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bi...
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bi...
Thumb of 2015-08-03/bamira/2c2aa2
Last edited by bamira Aug 2, 2015 6:32 PM Icon for preview
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Aug 2, 2015 7:47 PM CST
Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
Hi Everybody!! Let us talk native.
Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Butterflies Garden Ideas: Master Level Forum moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Birds Cat Lover
Yes they have then listed but they don't have a regular page for varieties, that is what I meant.
Wildflowers are the Smiles of Nature.
Gardening with Texas Native Plants and Wildflowers.
Image
Aug 2, 2015 8:15 PM CST

Dog Lover Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
I don't know what you mean, I think you're wrong variety for the cultivar ?
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Aug 2, 2015 8:54 PM CST

Dog Lover Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
for example, you may create a theoretical
Rudbeckia fulgida subsp. fulgida var. sullvantii f. alba cultivar Josephine Rolling on the floor laughing
then the name will be Rudbeckia fulgida 'Josephine'
the cultivar is not a variety or form,
subspecies - subsp.,varieta - var.,form - f. they are naturally created
the cultivar is artificially cultivate - by selecting the random variation, or targeted crossing, mostly differ just paint flowers
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Aug 2, 2015 9:02 PM CST
Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
Hi Everybody!! Let us talk native.
Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Butterflies Garden Ideas: Master Level Forum moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Birds Cat Lover
Well, you lost me, but if you say I am wrong then I probably am, I guess we can't be right all the time, sorry Sad
Wildflowers are the Smiles of Nature.
Gardening with Texas Native Plants and Wildflowers.
Image
Aug 2, 2015 9:22 PM CST
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
Bookworm Charter ATP Member Region: California Hummingbirder Orchids Plant Identifier
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
Excellent explanation! I've never paid too much attention to those abbreviations. Now if I can just remember them.
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Aug 2, 2015 9:25 PM CST

Dog Lover Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
I'm sorry, I don't understand Shrug!

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