Daylilies forum: Question about daylily roots

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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Aug 5, 2015 7:18 PM CST
@sooby @admmad - Are the roots of a dormant daylily different than that of an evergreen?

I've often wondered why dormant plants/roots typically survive northern Winters whereas many evergreens don't.
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[Last edited by beckygardener - Aug 5, 2015 8:16 PM (+)]
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Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Aug 6, 2015 2:19 AM CST
beckygardener said:Are the roots of a dormant daylily different than that of an evergreen?

As far as I can recall, no one has compared the roots of a group of dormant (actually dormant in the northern climate) cultivars versus the roots of evergreen (actually evergreen in the northern climate) cultivars.
beckygardener said:I've often wondered why dormant plants/roots typically survive northern Winters whereas many evergreens don't.

Actually most (or perhaps even nearly all) cultivars registered as evergreens survive my northern winters quite normally. Most cultivars registered as evergreens act the same way as dormants in my winter climate - that is, they seem to be dormants in a climate where it is appropriate to be dormant and evergreen in a climate where it is appropriate to be evergreen.

Maurice
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Aug 6, 2015 5:59 AM CST
Maurice - I am wrapping my brain around all of this. Regardless of whether they are evergreen, semi-evergreen, or dormant ... most (if not all) daylilies should grow and survive in just about any zone with proper care and protection from extreme climates.

Thank you! That gives me hope to try more daylilies labeled "dormant" here in the deep south. Thank You! Thank You!
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Aug 6, 2015 9:03 AM CST
It depends whether they are hardy (cold or heat) in the area in which they are being grown, and that isn't something that is indicated by the registered foliage habit.

Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Aug 6, 2015 9:04 AM CST
Sue - So it is basically trial and error with such plants?
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Coatesville IN (Zone 5b)
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Claudia
Aug 6, 2015 9:23 AM CST
I just did a quick check of my dailies and I grow all foliage types here. I did not realize how many evergreen & semi-evergreens I have. I have never paid a lot of attention to that factor. I have had a fair share of each type including dormants that have not done well here. It truly is a matter of trial and error.

For some reason plants by Gossard do not like it here. I have only 2 now. They do okay but do not excel & his climate is very similar to mine.
Weeds are flowers too, once you get to know them. ~Eeyore
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Aug 6, 2015 12:22 PM CST
beckygardener said:Sue - So it is basically trial and error with such plants?


You can narrow the odds by looking for plants that have done well for others in similar climates, plants hybridized in a similar climate, the sales catalogues of growers in similar climates etc., or check out the AHS Popularity Poll results for your AHS Region here:

For 2014:
https://daylilies.site-ym.com/resource/resmgr/2014_pop_poll_...

and here for past years:

http://www.daylilies.org/PopPoll/intro.html#Region12

Like Claudia and Maurice I grow all three registered foliage types, never paid any attention to it when I first got into daylilies and still don't. I only care if they're hardy here. I did buy from sellers in Canada and also referred to the regional popularity poll (which has its limitations in my region because it covers every zone from USDA Zone 7 to as cold as it gets Hilarious! )

I've lost a few, not many, over the years, from all foliage types. There's always going to be an element of trial and error in gardening.



Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Aug 6, 2015 1:23 PM CST
Claudia, Gossards do not do very well here either. They are very slow growing and do not increase very much.
Lighthouse Gardens
Coatesville IN (Zone 5b)
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Claudia
Aug 6, 2015 5:50 PM CST
That makes me feel better Cindy! I have always felt like it was just me! Sighing!
Weeds are flowers too, once you get to know them. ~Eeyore
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Aug 7, 2015 12:26 PM CST
beckygardener said:Sue - So it is basically trial and error with such plants?


@beckygardener, what about starting a different thread of favourite daylilies by USDA Zone, i.e. favourite daylily in Zone 4 in one thread, favourite daylily in Zone 6 in another thread and so on, or has that already been done at some time?

Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
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beckygardener
Aug 7, 2015 12:34 PM CST
Sue - That is a very good idea! Thumbs up

@char - Sue has made a suggestion for some new threads .... has such threads ever been started? If so, could you share the links with us?
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Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Aug 7, 2015 1:24 PM CST
being a newbie I haven't paid any attention to the foliage of the DL's I have bought... Sad

Apart from the foliage itself, what does it mean for me if a Dl is dormant, semi-evergreen or evergreen? Shrug!

And how came there to be 3 types? They all come from the same source, don't they?
Is one dominant when you cross different types?

Mayo
a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Name: Jessie Worsham
Stockbridge, GA (Zone 8a)
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Jessie6162
Aug 7, 2015 1:39 PM CST
Per the AHS Dictionary:
Dormant - the term "dormant" refers to daylilies that lose their foliage completely before or shortly after frost and over-winter with pointed foliage buds, usually just beneath the soil surface. Dormants will resume growth in spring.
Evergreen - daylilies that retain their foliage throughout the year. In cold winter climates, evergreen daylilies over-winter as a mound of frozen pale green foliage. Evergreens may resume growth during a mid-winter thaw in mild climates.
The semi-evergreen definition is pretty vauge, but I think it refers to plants that may show some dormancy, but not completely die back in winter.

The tricky part is that many plants may behave differently in different climates. Some evergreen daylilies in my southern garden might go dormant if transplanted in a northern zone, and vice versa. Many dormant plants have been hybridized in colder climates, and are sometimes considered more cold hardy, but in fact, plant habit is not necessarily an indication of hardiness. There are hardy and tender plants of all foliage types.

I'm not sure if dormancy is dominant or not. Daylily genetics is a very complicated subject, so I will defer to those who are more experienced on that one.

Hope this helps!
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Aug 7, 2015 1:45 PM CST
Mayo62 said:being a newbie I haven't paid any attention to the foliage of the DL's I have bought... Sad

Apart from the foliage itself, what does it mean for me if a Dl is dormant, semi-evergreen or evergreen? Shrug!

And how came there to be 3 types? They all come from the same source, don't they?
Is one dominant when you cross different types?

Mayo


In your climate it may well make no difference. Do you have any daylilies where the leaves all disappear in winter?

The registered foliage habit relates to the cultivar's behaviour in the garden of the registrant, it may not behave the same way in different climates and in your climate it's possible that registered dormants may not go dormant in winter. The three types come from the original species, some of which were evergreen and some of which were deciduous (dormant). Most daylily species are deciduous. The semi-evs come somewhere in between the two but that gets complicated. Evergreen is supposed to be dominant but @admmad can answer this aspect better than moi.

Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
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Char
Aug 7, 2015 2:44 PM CST

Moderator

beckygardener said:Sue - That is a very good idea! Thumbs up

@char - Sue has made a suggestion for some new threads .... has such threads ever been started? If so, could you share the links with us?


I think Sue has come up with a great idea for favorite daylilies by zone. Thumbs up We have had many threads started by different folks based on the "favorites" theme, but I don't remember recently (or if we ever have) doing them by growing zone. Anyone who has ideas for threads is welcome to start them and everyone can join in adding info/images to the thread topic....We have a really good forum here, our members are some of the most kind, giving, sharing people I know, they make my job of organizing things and making sure everyone plays nice easy. Smiling I tip my hat to you.

We've strayed a bit from the original question of whether roots are different in dormant and evergreen daylilies, however, I do think hardiness is much more important than foliage type.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Aug 7, 2015 6:10 PM CST
[quote="Mayo62"]being a newbie I haven't paid any attention to the foliage of the DL's I have bought... Is one dominant when you cross different types?/quote]
In one of his articles, Stout wrote that evergreen foliage was dominant. However, he gave no details of the crosses on which that conclusion was based. If one examines the registration database and analyzes the foliage types of the registered parents (when provided) of registered daylilies, there is some evidence that would support his statement. But I doubt that the inheritance of foliage type follows the Mendelian ratios associated with the expression of dominant characteristics. The inheritance of the registered foliage type is unlikely to be simple as the foliage types can be completely different when a cultivar is grown in different locations.

Maurice

Weedyseedy
Aug 7, 2015 7:07 PM CST
I have both Hemerocallis flava (or lilioasphadelus?) and Hemerocallis minor. Both lose all leaves in the winter-you can't even find them. Flava has fleshy enlarged roots while minor has fibrous roots. For years I thought a low early yellow daylily was minor, but now after rereading Stout I think the one I bought as minor is really H. nana. It seems to have fibrous roots- or at least mine does. Nana seems to cross with every thing all by itself and is shedding seeds all around itself now. I think it has teamed up with Stella, Happy Returns, middendorfs, dumortierii and Heaven knows what, as they are all different shapes and height. Some other early Spring seedlings disappear as well and if I dig around the clump I find that the growing point of the fan looks almost like the tip of a bulb just a rounded point with the leaves inside. Minor has been called a variety of flava, by the way, but Stout thought they were quite different and they are from narrow leaves to thick scapes on flava and thin wiry scapes on minor to different roots to huge seed pods on flava with big black seeds to small narrow pods on minor with the smallest seeds of any daylily-Weedy
Thumb of 2015-08-08/Weedyseedy/33fd58 leaves of this seedling completely disappear in winter it's miserably infertile too!

[Last edited by Weedyseedy - Aug 7, 2015 7:09 PM (+)]
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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Aug 7, 2015 9:23 PM CST
Char - Thanks!

Sue - Start a thread for your zone! Thumbs up
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Aug 8, 2015 9:26 AM CST
OK, Becky. I assume you're going to start the thread for your zone?
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Aug 8, 2015 9:55 AM CST
Yes! You go first! Big Grin
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
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