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Sep 6, 2015 4:46 PM CST
Name: Judith
Northern Virginia (Zone 7a)
Amaryllis Garden Photography Container Gardener Sempervivums Garden Ideas: Level 2
I know this must have been discussed a lot, but I cannot find a post for it. I'm just figuring out what you all mean when you talk about watermarks on semps. I could not understand why anyone would desire white spots on their leaves where the dried water left a mark. 😳 but now that I realize that watermarks are gorgeous, wavy stripes, I'm wondering this: do some varieties of semps automatically develop watermarks or is this like cresting where it occurs randomly. Also, if anyone knows of other posts on this subject, I'd appreciate a heads-up. Thanks
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Sep 6, 2015 8:08 PM CST
Name: Tim Stoehr
Canby, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Sempervivums Region: Pacific Northwest Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents Sedums
Bee Lover Region: Oregon Dragonflies Keeper of Poultry Cat Lover Composter
I'm guessing the watermark is a physical imprint from where previous leaves have been tightly pressed together during part of their development. On an Agave you can actually run your finger along and feel the markings, but on a semp it's much more subtle. Continuing to guess, I'd say some varieties are simply more prone to it than others.
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Sep 6, 2015 9:31 PM CST
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Hydrangeas Photo Contest Winner 2018 Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator
Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan
It has something to do with the wax on the leaves. Man I can hear Kevin telling up all about this but can't remember. @Jungleshadows
Sempervivum for Sale
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Sep 6, 2015 10:50 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Here you go Judith and Tim. Not all semps get the watermarks. Some have them nearly year round, others just at certain times of the year. They are quite beautiful.
The thread "Watermarked Semps" in Sempervivum forum

@JungleShadows
Kevin can you explain what causes the water markings to happen?
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Sep 7, 2015 10:29 AM CST
Name: Judith
Northern Virginia (Zone 7a)
Amaryllis Garden Photography Container Gardener Sempervivums Garden Ideas: Level 2
Loved the Watermark thread. Thank you Lynn, for the link. I even discovered a comment about Howard Willis's book and ordered it. The pictures in that thread are gorgeous. I now have a long list of semps I want. 😊 BTW, this is a super community.
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Sep 7, 2015 10:36 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
We are so glad you joined us Judith. And you will love Howard Willis's book. I have it.
Maybe you could join us this next spring at the Sempervivum Hybridizing Clinic in Salem, OR. The clinic is free, we visit some amazing gardens and nurseries. You would have such a great time.
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Sep 7, 2015 5:38 PM CST
Name: Judith
Northern Virginia (Zone 7a)
Amaryllis Garden Photography Container Gardener Sempervivums Garden Ideas: Level 2
Thank You! Thanks for the invite, Lynn. I've been mooning over that clinic. I'd LOVE it, and I'd enjoy meeting the group there. But we are going to be in the middle of a big move to TN, so maybe another year. 😊
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Sep 7, 2015 8:36 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Hopefully the following year will work for you, we would sure love to have you join us.
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Sep 8, 2015 8:36 AM CST
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Yes the watermarks are from uneven distribution of surface waxes that causes the underlying anthocyanin colored cells beneath to have different shades. Think about adding candle wax over a basic clear color in different amounts and you have an idea as to how the colors can be affected. It adds a lot of distinction and beauty to those that exhibit these characteristics.

One of the sibs to 'Borscht' has the strongest contrast in the watermarks that I have seen and it seems to pass it on to its seedlings too.

Lynn is right about the clinic. All the semp crazies in one spot!

Kevin
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Sep 8, 2015 9:07 AM CST
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Hydrangeas Photo Contest Winner 2018 Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator
Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan
Thank You!
Sempervivum for Sale
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Sep 8, 2015 9:14 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
I added it to the Vignettes by Kevin Vaughn The thread "Vignettes by Kevin Vaughn" in Sempervivum forum

Thank you Kevin for the explaination, and thank you Judith for asking. That was a great question.
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Sep 8, 2015 9:21 AM CST
Name: Judith
Northern Virginia (Zone 7a)
Amaryllis Garden Photography Container Gardener Sempervivums Garden Ideas: Level 2
Thank you for the terrific explanation, Kevin. It makes me think of batik and the application of wax changing the color outcome. But I won't try that on a semp. Big Grin
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Sep 8, 2015 11:35 AM CST
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Container Gardener Foliage Fan Sempervivums Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Garden Ideas: Master Level
JungleShadows said: Lynn is right about the clinic. All the semp crazies in one spot!

Kevin


Wasn't sure how I was wanting to define myself at this stage of my life...and Kevin just helped. Smiling
Last edited by webesemps Sep 8, 2015 11:39 AM Icon for preview
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Sep 8, 2015 4:39 PM CST
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Bev,

Crazy is the new 40!

Kevin
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Sep 8, 2015 4:49 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Judith you would absolutely love this group of semp fanatics. Now doesn't that sound better than crazy? Green Grin!
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Sep 8, 2015 5:43 PM CST
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Container Gardener Foliage Fan Sempervivums Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Garden Ideas: Master Level
It's too late; Kevin went and put an official label on us all.. Blinking .
Though I, for one, don't have 350+ cultivars of semps... Whistling
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Sep 8, 2015 6:26 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Well I don't either. Green Grin!
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Sep 9, 2015 1:10 PM CST
Name: Tim Stoehr
Canby, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Sempervivums Region: Pacific Northwest Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents Sedums
Bee Lover Region: Oregon Dragonflies Keeper of Poultry Cat Lover Composter
The water markings seem to match the outlines of the leaves above it, leading me to assume the pressure of one leaf against another has something to do with this. Perhaps influencing how much wax gets deposited where? If not, then why do the watermarks match the leaf outlines above them? Confused
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Sep 9, 2015 9:15 PM CST
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Tim,

Actually the watermark patterns are quite variable, especially in the better watermarked ones. You do get SOME change in wax deposition becvause of subtending leaves but it's more minor than in many true watermarks.

Kevin
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Sep 9, 2015 9:36 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Another great piece of information. Thank you Kevin.
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