Roses forum: Which Bolero is this?

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Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
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CindiKS
Oct 28, 2015 9:43 AM CST
Regan nursery is offering Bolero, a Romantica rose. I've wanted this rose for a while now. I've only seen it in person in So California. Never out here.
http://www.regannursery.com/plant/Bolero-or
But when I look on helpmefind and on our own database, I see 3 (or more) roses with this name. The hybridizer name for the Romantica Bolero is MEIcauley, and it's a 1997 intro. HMF says zone 7 for this one.
The other newer Bolero is MEIdelweis, and it is a floribunda and it significantly more hardy, according to both our database and other comments I find online. It's from 2004-5
Regan says they have a floribunda Bolero Romantica from 2005 that is hardy to zone 6, which sounds perfect, but......is that what they have?
I am so confused. Someone please help!
I want to call them today to add it to my order, along with a few new Austins, but I don't want to end up with a rose I can't grow because it is only hardy to zone 7. We're 7 most years, but I'm learning that when I push zones, I end up with plants that struggle and look bad.
Confused Confused Shrug!
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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gemini_sage
Oct 28, 2015 10:09 AM CST
I have no clue, but I'm watching this thread because that is a gorgeous rose I'd love to grow. Do you grow others from the Romantica series? I've looked closely at them, and noticed several are listed as zone 6 or 7 hardy and that has kept me from trying any yet.
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
Oct 28, 2015 10:32 AM CST
Oh My Neal! I LOVE the Romantica series. I have all except Abbey de Cluny and Classic Woman. (and Bolero..)
I would say start with Pink and Red Traviatas. I think Palatine lists a few. Last fall, when it got so cold so suddenly, my Red Traviata took a hard hit. It died to the ground. It magically came back this spring, and by June had blossoms and was 3 feet tall. Now it is 6 feet tall and still blooming. I think they're all good for zone 6 except for Classic Woman. (not sure about Classic Woman)
Let me see if I can post a few pictures. It's windy today, which makes for blurry pics, but I'll see, maybe I have some on my phone.
edited the goofy typos...
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
[Last edited by CindiKS - Oct 30, 2015 11:58 AM (+)]
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Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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gemini_sage
Oct 28, 2015 10:42 AM CST
Red Traviata was the first one that caught my eye! Oh, I'm so happy to hear they perform well!
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
Oct 28, 2015 11:05 AM CST
Wish I had more blooming today, but it's October 28, so I am really greatful I have these to show!
Thumb of 2015-10-28/CindiKS/8657bf
Red Traviata


Thumb of 2015-10-28/CindiKS/2b28ff
Pink Traviata. Foliage on these is clean dark shiny green.



Thumb of 2015-10-28/CindiKS/9f25f2
Red Eden, which tends to ball in heavy rain. Otherwise, the blooms last a long time.
I have the newer one, Pretty in Pink Eden which is even better. I think Palatine has these. Edmunds has the Pretty in Pink.
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
Oct 28, 2015 11:09 AM CST

Thumb of 2015-10-28/CindiKS/6b2545
I'm happy with the disease resistance of these because I don't spray and we had a weird wet summer. I didn't feed them this year either. They are 6' tall. The Red Eden is a climber, and it is probably 9 feet tall.
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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gemini_sage
Oct 28, 2015 11:38 AM CST
Wonderful news about the disease resistance! I don't spray either, so they sound perfect! I forgot that the various forms of Eden are part of the series, I only have the original Eden, but it has never done all that well. I think I may have gotten a dud and should try another from another source.
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
Oct 28, 2015 11:53 AM CST
My original Eden also balled in rain, but it made a good cutting rose. It also had blackspot even in dry years. The Traviatas have a wonderful strong fragrance. Red gets an 8.0 rating on ARS, but pink only had 7.4. I think it deserves an 8.
Twice this summer, in local nurseries, I bought roses that were labeled Bolero, both with Star tags, and neither one was correct. One was a pink hybrid tea, the other a dark red. I'm hoping Regan sends me a good genuine Bolero.
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Sherry Austin
Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9a)
Region: California Irises Keeper of Poultry Roses Dragonflies Birds
Bulbs Foliage Fan Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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Henhouse
Oct 29, 2015 10:36 PM CST
I've got Bolero on order from Regan's.. I'm hoping it's true to name.. I'm wondering what their source is?
When counting, try not to mix chickens with blessings.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Oct 29, 2015 11:01 PM CST

Moderator

CindiKS said:Regan nursery is offering Bolero, a Romantica rose. I've wanted this rose for a while now. I've only seen it in person in So California. Never out here.
http://www.regannursery.com/plant/Bolero-or
But when I look on helpmefind and on our own database, I see 3 (or more) roses with this name. The hybridizer name for the Romantica Bolero is MEIcauley, and it's a 1997 intro. HMF says zone 7 for this one.
The other newer Bolero is MEIdelweis, and it is a floribunda and it significantly more hardy, according to both our database and other comments I find online. It's from 2004-5
Regan says they have a floribunda Bolero Romantica from 2005 that is hardy to zone 6, which sounds perfect, but......is that what they have?
I am so confused. Someone please help!
I want to call them today to add it to my order, along with a few new Austins, but I don't want to end up with a rose I can't grow because it is only hardy to zone 7. We're 7 most years, but I'm learning that when I push zones, I end up with plants that struggle and look bad.
Confused Confused Shrug!


Regan's confused. There is no 'Bolero' from 2005. There is a rose called 'Bolero 2004,' which was hybridized before 2003 and was introduced in 2004. It's a floribunda and is hardy to zone 5, but it's not a Romantica rose. The only Romantica is 'Bolero,' the hybrid tea from 1997, which is not as hardy as the floribunda.

Our database also lists a climbing 'Bolero,' but it's a Danish rose and has nothing to do with Meilland's Romantica series.
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Oct 30, 2015 7:13 AM CST
http://www.starrosesandplants.com/plants/rose/bolero-rose
Is this the rose that Regan is offering? It states it is a Romantica rose and a Floribunda.
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
Oct 30, 2015 10:56 AM CST
Thanks, Margie! Yes, that's the one I want! I saw it at two San Diego nurseries, and it smelled just the way the Star Roses tag said it would. It looked like a Romantica rose, loads of petals. I'm still kicking myself for not finding a way to get it back to Kansas.
Zuzu, maybe Meilland put out yet another Bolero rose??? Blinking
Regan does carry the Star line, so I'm sure that's the one they are offering.
I will do some more research, maybe see if i can contact Star.
Confused
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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gemini_sage
Oct 30, 2015 3:22 PM CST
I would so love to be neighbors with other rose and flower lovers like you gals. Imagine the gardens we'd have if we combined forces!
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Oct 30, 2015 3:40 PM CST
Sounds dangerous to me!
Porkpal
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Oct 30, 2015 4:22 PM CST
Neal stated: "I would so love to be neighbors with other rose and flower lovers like you gals. Imagine the gardens we'd have if we combined forces!"
Yes! I sure wished we lived closer to each - we could have a community garden.

Name: Sherry Austin
Santa Cruz, CA (Zone 9a)
Region: California Irises Keeper of Poultry Roses Dragonflies Birds
Bulbs Foliage Fan Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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Henhouse
Oct 31, 2015 2:00 AM CST
Hopefully that's the one that Regan's is getting.

Does anyone have any insight into why the ARS allows different roses to have the same name?

Neal, I would love to have you as a neighbor.I'd have you over for tea and banana coconut bread, and we'd be able to share opinions on color and placement of plants.
I finally have a couple in my rental next door that are plant people. It's a joy to be able to share cuttings and rhizomes. He was thinning out his cymbidium collection and gave me three of them and countless Iris rhizomes. They brought a fairly large collection of plants with them, and I enjoy being invited over to see what's in bloom, or a new purchase. I've often thought how wonderful it could be living on a street full of plant and garden geeks.
When counting, try not to mix chickens with blessings.
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Oct 31, 2015 9:58 AM CST
Sherry asked: "Does anyone have any insight into why the ARS allows different roses to have the same name?"

It my understanding the problem is with registering or not registering roses. And having "no central registry for roses".
See post # 898944

With close to over a million words in the English language alone, I see no reason for duplication of names except to add confusion.

Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Oct 31, 2015 12:03 PM CST
So Sherry, where's the recipe for the banana coconut bread?
You are most fortunate to have garden geeks for neighbors - no such luck here. My daughter's who's home is about an hour from here has little interest. However, I will be introducing my 17 month old grandson to gardening this coming Spring. I also purchased an amaryllis bulb for him the other day. Xavier says: "Treat-Or-Treat". Here he is dressed as Chewbacca, a Wookie Warrior from Star Wars.
Thumb of 2015-10-31/MargieNY/75cd04

Xavier will have a sibling due in April

Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Oct 31, 2015 12:31 PM CST

Moderator

The clue is in the name ARS. It's the American Rose Society. Meilland's roses are French. Meilland probably doesn't care what the ARS would allow or disallow. Kordes, another company that uses the same English name over and over for its roses, is German.
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Oct 31, 2015 5:41 PM CST
Thank you Zuzu - that was a good explanation. I also found this thread:
http://rosebreeders.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47334&p=47...
The last 2 responses were interesting reads. Especially the sentence that begins with: "As to duplication names, we were told that as long as it was a different classification......"
I looked up Bolero in the ATP database and one of the Bolero rose class is listed as a floribunda, the second is a Hybrid Tea and the third is a climber. So I guess it's acceptable.
There was also mention of "CRL". Wow, this would really be cool to have - http://www.combinedroselist.com/
I guess most of the members on this forum know about this but, for me it's exciting - kinda like opening a door into another world.

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