Roses forum: Help!

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hapynhim
Oct 29, 2015 1:57 PM CST
This rose bush was my Great Grandmothers (I'm 48 years old). I dug it up from my parents house in Florida because it was dying. It's gotten better here in the last year but is still so weak frail. Now these black spots! I need help! I don't even know what kind of rose bush it is... We've always called it "The Nettie Rose", that was my grandmothers name.
Can you help me?


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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Oct 29, 2015 2:18 PM CST

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How exciting to have your great-grandmother's rose! The black spots look like Black Spot, a common rose fungus that isn't fatal. It's usually caused by excess moisture, either moisture in the air or excess precipitation. Most of my roses display signs of Black Spot after the spring rains. Typically, those leaves will fall off the rose and will be replaced by nice new leaves.

Other than that, the only problem I see is the need for the rose to compete with grass and other vegetation for moisture and nutrients. I would pull out anything that's growing too close to the rose.
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
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CindiKS
Oct 29, 2015 2:18 PM CST
Hello, and welcome to the ATP Rose forum!
Your rose actually looks like it's doing well for being a transplanted rose. Those black spots are a disease called "Black Spot". It's caused by water or humidity on the leaves, and it's kind of ugly, but it's not a fatal disease...usually. The rose may lose quite a few leaves, but it will grow new ones. There are chemicals out there that you can spray on the plant that will prevent it from getting Black spot and other problems. A lot of the people I know use Bayer All in One, or really anything labeled as a fungicide for roses. Hopefully someone else will come up with better names for you.
That's cool that you kept a family plant going. My family does that too. Is your rose growing in Florida now?
With a longer growing season, you could use the chemicals that have food and fungicide both. In colder places, you wouldn't want to add any fertilizer this late in the year. Like I said, hopefully someone else will help out--maybe our east coast people who have to spray for these issues.
good luck!
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
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CindiKS
Oct 29, 2015 2:19 PM CST
And...Zuzu and I cross posted!
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Oct 29, 2015 2:20 PM CST

Moderator

And told you essentially the same thing. Smiling

hapynhim
Oct 29, 2015 2:23 PM CST
Thank you! There is another rose bush growing near, and my dumb butt planted mint around it... I'll make sure I pull all of that up, I have it planted elsewhere as well!

zuzu said:How exciting to have your great-grandmother's rose! The black spots look like Black Spot, a common rose fungus that isn't fatal. It's usually caused by excess moisture, either moisture in the air or excess precipitation. Most of my roses display signs of Black Spot after the spring rains. Typically, those leaves will fall off the rose and will be replaced by nice new leaves.

Other than that, the only problem I see is the need for the rose to compete with grass and other vegetation for moisture and nutrients. I would pull out anything that's growing too close to the rose.



hapynhim
Oct 29, 2015 2:28 PM CST
Thank you all for the reply! Maybe my problem is the Min that is planted around it! It does try and take over! I'll make sure I pull all of that up and give my "Nettie Rose" room to breath and get healthy! The rose is now here in Eatonton, Ga. I have tried so hard to baby it. I am also wanting to learn to root some from the plant to give to my children.... Want to make sure it's good and healthy before I tackle that tho! I will be looking into the fungicide as well. One more question... should I try and cut it back for the winter? Our temp's have ranged from 50 at night to 80 during the day lol (gotta love Georgia weather)
Thanks again for all of your help!
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
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zuzu
Oct 29, 2015 2:34 PM CST

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Cutting it back would stimulate growth, which isn't a good idea now that winter's approaching and the new growth could be zapped by frost.

hapynhim
Oct 29, 2015 2:41 PM CST
Thank you ZUZU and CindiKS. I just pulled up the Mint... I will wait until Spring to cut it back Smiling God Bless You Both!
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Oct 29, 2015 7:46 PM CST
Welcome! hapynhim

Zuzu and CindiKS are correct that when you see those black spots on the foliage of a rose, it indicates the rose disease of black spot. There is one exception that comes to my mind. If your grandmother's rose is what we call an "old garden rose" or ogr that naturally sheds its leaves as part of the process of going dormant for the winter months, the leaves will often show black spots and may turn yellow as the rose prepares to abandon the leaves.

Dormancy in roses is triggered by cooler temperatures and shorter daylight hours. If the rose is going dormant, those black spots are just an indicator that the rose is no longer providing nutrients to the foliage and is hoarding all of the nutrients in its root zone.

You may want to put a layer of mulch over the area you have cleared of mint to block light from any mint you may have left behind to inhibit the growth of new mint plants. In spring, you should replace that mulch with new mulch. If the rose does have black spot, the spores over winter in the old mulch. Replacing that mulch will help your rose stay healthier.

Good luck with your rose.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Oct 30, 2015 2:53 PM CST
Here's what I do for blackspot : discard all falling leaves, spray the entire plant including canes and surrounding soil with fungicide, than add the mulch. Discard all old mulch in the Spring and add new mulch. Begin spray program - according to directions on product label. It's the kind of thing you have to keep after - follow a schedule closely - mark your calendar.
Send us a photo of your rose when it blooms - would love to see it.
Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
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DogsNDaylilies
Nov 8, 2015 6:57 AM CST
Hapy,

Welcome!

I'm really glad you asked this question because I had Black Spot on my rose bushes this season and, although I knew Black Spot wasn't fatal, I didn't know what to do about it. You came to the right place to ask your questions, though, ATP is FULL of helpful people!

Do you have a picture of the roses in bloom (even if it's an old and/or blurry picture)? We love pictures here on ATP! Big Grin You may even get lucky and get an ID for your bloom if the bloom is distinct enough.



Going back to the black spots...I was surprised when my Firefighter roses, which are supposed to be more resistant to Black Spot started developing what I thought was black spot shortly after I purchased them (just a couple of months ago or less) until Lyn ( @RoseBlush1 ) wrote the following:

RoseBlush1 said:
Dormancy in roses is triggered by cooler temperatures and shorter daylight hours. If the rose is going dormant, those black spots are just an indicator that the rose is no longer providing nutrients to the foliage and is hoarding all of the nutrients in its root zone.


Thank you, Lyn, for that very informative bit of information! Do you know if Firefighter rose goes dormant, by chance? It's a hybrid tea rose, so probably not what would be considered 'Old Garden Rose'...but is it possible that it goes dormant anyway?
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
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CindiKS
Nov 8, 2015 10:22 AM CST
I'm not Lyn, but I can tell you Firefighter does go dormant, and here in zone 6b/7 , it needs winter protection or it will go permanently dormant.
hapynhim, we are going to be bugging you next spring to see the blooms on this rose, so you make sure you are taking good pictures! You know, it would be the thrill of my life if one of my kids wanted a start of a rose I grow. To think that future grandkids might have the same desire for one of my plants is just a dream. Lovey dubby
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Nov 8, 2015 12:19 PM CST
Cindi ....

The dynamics of a plant going dormant are really interesting. In a sense, modern roses do not know how to go dormant ... Hilarious!

For a plant to go fully dormant, it pulls the sugars/nutrients from all parts of the plant above ground and sends them to the roots so that the plant can come back in the spring. The the plant also pulls moisture out of the cells of all of that growth so that the top growth does not completely freeze, leaving one molecule of water between the cells in the canes.

Robert Osborne goes into this process in greater detail in his book about hardy roses:
http://www.amazon.com/Hardy-Roses-Organic-Disease-Resistant-...

Modern roses lost this ability to go fully dormant when the genes for repeat bloom was introduced to the rose gene pool by including tea and china roses into the breeding of roses. The roses from those climates never had to go dormant, so they were never genetically programmed to go dormant. This is also why "tender" roses are not cold hardy.

DogsNDaylilies

No, 'Firefighter' does not go dormant in that it is a modern rose with repeat bloom. You may have seen BS when you planted your new plant because young roses are often more susceptible to disease as they have not developed their immune system which enables them to fight off disease. Also newly planted roses, from my point of view, are stressed in that they do not in many cases have a fully developed root system.

We have talked a lot about roots near the end of this thread:
The thread "Which Bolero is this?" in Roses forum

I just checked my own 'Firefighter' and altho' it is losing leaves as night temps have dropped to freezing up here, the rose foliage is still clean.

I wrote a lot of information which has been learned about BS in the last decade in post # 466315 dated 08/15/2013
The thread "Suggestions for newbie ?" in Roses forum

Those in colder zones than I have gardened in can give you more information about winter protection than I can because they have personal experience with that issue. I've never gardened where I have to provide winter protection to my roses.

I have to get moving, so if you have more questions, I'll try to get to them this evening.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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