Daylilies forum: Do disappearing daylilies come back?

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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Jan 30, 2016 7:27 PM CST
I acquired several registered daylilies this past year. Most all are doing well, but 2 disappeared. I don't know if they died or went dormant or what happened. I have some dormants that haven't gone dormant yet this year. The two that have disappeared are not registered as dormant. They are Calagary Stampede and Raspberry Beret. I also lost Riot on the Kindergarten Bus the year I acquired it (last year). So should I dig around in the.soil to see if there are live roots or can I assume the plants perished for some reason. This a bummer as I've had a mild Winter and these daylilies looked good and then all the sudden over a short period of time have disappeared. Root rot? Spring sickness? What would cause this to happen?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Jan 30, 2016 7:51 PM CST
Since I'm not in Florida I can only say that where I am one is advised not to assume a daylily is a goner until at least late June or July (presumably somewhat earlier where you are), and the worst thing to do is poke around investigating. I learned that latter lesson the hard way, it seems to sometimes push them over the edge when they were actually trying to come back. What can happen is that the main meristem has died but new shoots may develop from the sides of the crown but this can take a while.

Live roots don't mean anything, the roots can look fine even when the plant is toast. If you must investigate, it is the crown that counts, a daylily won't regrow from roots, only from the crown (or a rhizome if there is one).

It doesn't sound like spring sickness. Spring sickness is a problem of emerging foliage and although some fans may ultimately rot that doesn't happen the majority of the time.

Another thing I would add that may not be relevant in the case of these particular plants is that daylily foliage habit applies in the garden of the registrant and that doesn't necessarily mean it will behave that way in another garden or area.

Name: Ken
East S.F. Bay Area (Zone 9a)
Region: California
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CaliFlowers
Jan 30, 2016 7:54 PM CST
Interesting question, Becky.

I see that Raspberry Beret has a dormant parent, and there is a dormant lurking behind Calgary Stampede as well, but both of those plants are Florida-bred, with a lot of evergreen blood, so they shouldn't just turn up their toes in your area for no reason at all.

Were they husky plants on arrival? How many fans? How long ago did you get them, how healthy did they look during the last growing season, and did you set a lot of pods on either of them? Did you have any unusual hot or rainy spells?

I have daylilies here which are registered as dormant, but are still showing as much foliage as some of the evergreens. There can be a lot of reasons for this. I think that when a hybridizer gets to the point where they are introducing a lot of daylilies, they sometimes don't have time to pay enough attention to the foliage habit before registering. They may have been dividing it frequently for introduction, and therefore never let it rest in one spot long enough for it to settle down into its seasonal rhythm, or their weather doesn't allow them to clearly determine its growth habit. In a severe climate, most daylilies might appear dormant, and in a very mild climate, most of them may appear to be Sev, or Ev. It can be a tough call.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jan 30, 2016 8:34 PM CST
Personally I would not dig around in the soil yet.

I have 'Calgary Stampede' and we are expecting a thaw over the next five days so I can go into the field and I will be able to see its behaviour (since most if not all the snow will have disappeared). I expect that it can act as a normal dormant some years in your location. It probably acts like a normal dormant every winter here. I can let you know in the next week what it did here.
Maurice
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
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beckygardener
Jan 30, 2016 11:17 PM CST
Thanks for everyone's input. I am at a loss unless they have gone dormant. Almost all of these plants are new to me in 2015. I received most in the late summer/early fall. All of them looked fine, though they did have a really bad case of aphids on them about a month ago because our weather has been so mild. I sprayed all the foliage with soapy water which seemed to cure the issue. They are in a brand new bed where I used mostly pine fines and top soil. I did add some lime to the mix as well as worm casings and alfalfa when I created that raised bed. I fertilized everything about 2 weeks ago with MiracleGro. We did get near freezing for 2 nights in a row last weekend. So I don't know if that is what happened or what. I covered them the coldest night with sheets and uncovered them the next day as it warmed up. I didn't see any frost burn on any of the foliage of the other daylilies. And we've had rain since. I can't remember if before the cold temps if there was foliage on these 2 cultivars. I don't think Raspberry Beret was there and I am thinking Calvary Stampede was gone too. In fact, I Raspberry Beret has been missing since before Christmas. So it either died or went dormant. I am almost going to guess dormant because I remember last winter after I first got it, I thought it was trying to die. It came back and bloomed just fine. But it was a rust bucket at that time. When I transplanted it in the raised bed in late summer, it looked much better and to my surprise, it had no rust this Fall, though a few others in the same bed did have rust.

The foliage on most of the plants seemed to die back just a little after the aphids issue. But almost all are putting on new growth now except the two cultivars that are now missing. We have had a lot of rain. Seriously, the foliage on those plants looked fine the last time I saw them, which has obviously been a while ago. Now there is nothing. Just an empty spot where they were each planted. My immediate reaction was slugs. But with all the pine fines, I don't know if slugs would be able to survive in that raised bed.

I sure hope they come back. I especially wanted to see Calgary Stampede bloom. It looks like a very lovely cultivar!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Jan 30, 2016 11:26 PM (+)]
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Name: Mary
Kitchener , Canada (Zone 5b)
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tugg
Jan 31, 2016 10:19 AM CST
I'm not sure anything I can offer would be relavent since our zones are miles apart. However I had the same thing happen with Lavender blue baby , king George, and Jamaican midnight quite a few years ago. For whatever reason they disappeared and I thought they had died.Two years later king George and Jamaican midnight reappeared and started growing really well. It took Lavender Blue Baby three years and it too bounced back.Im not saying this would be the case in your situation but you never know. During they're " disappearance " I went ahead and replaced the three plants: I should have saved my money because the original ones are very healthy and I now have an abundance of those three cultivars! Hilarious!
Name: Stan
Florida Panhandle (Defuniak Sp (Zone 8b)
Region: Gulf Coast Enjoys or suffers hot summers Daylilies Lilies Keeps Horses Dog Lover
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GaNinFl
Jan 31, 2016 10:33 AM CST
Becky, I too have noticed a couple of mine diapering altogether. While other so called dormants have never fully went into resting and are hanging out as if nothing has happened to send them night, night! Shrug!

I haven't given up on them but afraid the tree rats may damage them digging around in the pots. Grumbling Darn tree rats. Their only purpose is to plant oak trees... Rolling on the floor laughing

As suggested above, I'm not giving up on them until June or July comes and goes with nothing happening in the pots.
Stan
(Georgia Native in Florida)
http://garden.org/blogs/view/GaNinFl/
Name: Stan
Florida Panhandle (Defuniak Sp (Zone 8b)
Region: Gulf Coast Enjoys or suffers hot summers Daylilies Lilies Keeps Horses Dog Lover
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GaNinFl
Jan 31, 2016 11:39 AM CST
Well wouldn't you know it... I went out to take pictures of a couple that have disappeared and guess who's coming back. Whistling

Below are,

Trahlyta's Song
Thumb of 2016-01-31/GaNinFl/a5ed8b Thumb of 2016-01-31/GaNinFl/4fcdf4

Moon River Ripples
Thumb of 2016-01-31/GaNinFl/bd44ec


Here is Moses Fire that I shared yesterday. It is listed as a dormant but never really went into resting.

Thumb of 2016-01-31/GaNinFl/7e89f7

I tip my hat to you.
Stan
(Georgia Native in Florida)
http://garden.org/blogs/view/GaNinFl/
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jan 31, 2016 11:56 AM CST
Here is a photo of all the cultivars right after I planted them all into the new raised bed:

Thumb of 2016-01-31/beckygardener/111aef

All the plants except one were double fans (or more). The photo above was taken the beginning of October 2015.

Here is a photo of what that raised bed looks like now. I have noticed (even with fertilizing) that the plants always seem like they are resting this time of year. The foliage rarely dies completely back (with possibly the exception of hard dormants). But neither of the missing plants are dormants, so I sure hope I didn't lose them. I've had Raspberry Beret since August 2014 and it had been growing in a nursery pot until I planted it into the raised bed this past October. The aphid attack was the only problem I saw with them since planting them. It was a very bad infestation which I didn't catch right away because of the holidays distraction and all the rain we have been having.

Please ignore the cinder blocks in the photo and the messy area around the raised bed. I am using them for the sheet covers on the cold nights to keep the wind from blowing them off. I will be replacing all the grass this Spring around the outside of the raised bed, when the mulch bags go on sale. I do everything in steps due to my budget and sales events. Thumbs up

Thumb of 2016-01-31/beckygardener/493cd0

I have at least 1 dormant in that raised bed. It is Persian Pattern. The leaves also disappeared, but they are coming back now:

Thumb of 2016-01-31/beckygardener/25d66f
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jan 31, 2016 12:18 PM CST
Here's a photo from October without the names on them. I know some are dormants, though one of the front ones (front inside right in the photo) ... Siloam's Double Classic looks like one of the best of all (in the photo I took today) and is a dormant. (I guess someone forgot to tell it! Whistling Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! )

From October 2015 (photo without names):

Thumb of 2016-01-31/beckygardener/7c94ff

This is why my concern. I live in zone 9b/10a and plants shouldn't just disappear like that unless they are dormants or dying, right?

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Margaret Moore
West St. Paul, MN (Zone 4a)
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cataddict
Jan 31, 2016 3:00 PM CST
Being a northern gardener (Zone 4), I can tell you that most dormants disappear in the winter, warm or not. They need a rest period. It may have more to do with the daylight hours than temperature, though I can't swear to that. I've even had some go dormant after blooming when it's dry, but they came back in the fall. I hope yours are OK.
Name: Stan
Florida Panhandle (Defuniak Sp (Zone 8b)
Region: Gulf Coast Enjoys or suffers hot summers Daylilies Lilies Keeps Horses Dog Lover
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GaNinFl
Jan 31, 2016 3:36 PM CST
Hi again Becky,

I remember that photo and also admiring Drooling what a great job you did with the bed. I think that maybe with transplanting it may just be taking a break and will come on back very soon... Fingers Crossed, toes crossed, eyes crossed. Rolling on the floor laughing

Only time will tell, right!

I tip my hat to you.
Stan
(Georgia Native in Florida)
http://garden.org/blogs/view/GaNinFl/
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jan 31, 2016 8:40 PM CST
Well, I will find out if they come back before long, I am sure. If they don't, I guess it just opens up 2 spots to add some other cultivars to the raised bed.

I did add another one to that raised bed not too long ago. It is a diploid that kousa (Karen) sent me called, "Big Snowbird". Oddly enough the AHS and ATP databases don't say what it's plant habit is. So I don't know if it is an ev, sev, or dormant. I think that is the first time I've noticed a plant listed without that.

All the plants I received this past year arrived with their foliage cut very short. It didn't take them long to grow out some very nice foliage. I think most will like it here in Florida. I have another smaller bed with 8 more cultivars in it. That is the extent of the registered daylilies that I have (50 total). All the other daylilies I have are seedlings. Which is somewhere between 300-350 if I count the recent sprouted seedlings. I have some very nice crosses in those. Most of my seedlings are 2 years old or less, so they are still young plants. (My very first seedlings are older than that though.) And I lose some plants each year. I think those that disappear are dormants and don't like the heat of FL and the lack of cold Winters. But that is ok, because that is the whole point of growing seedlings and registered daylilies ... to figure out what will grow well here. But I do hate losing something that I was excited about. Especially one that I never got to see at least bloom first. Riot on the Kindergarten Bus disappeared completely. It came perfectly healthy, was planted up in a pot, and promptly died. I have no idea what happened. I never got to even see a single bloom. But it might just have been one of those cultivars that can't handle the heat here in FL.

My avatar photo is one that I may register and name in honor of my sister. But guess what? It appears to be a dormant. It nearly disappeared this Winter, too. Am hoping that it also comes back and produces more fans and lots of blooms. Isn't that weird? It's siblings are not going dormant. Naturally, with my luck, it is the only one with a possible dormant gene from those seedlings of that cross! Sheesh! My luck has not been good with plants I'm considering for registration. Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jan 31, 2016 8:48 PM CST
Thank you to each and everyone of you who offered advice and suggestions. I really appreciate it!

I hope they are just taking a rest and come back big and healthy before too long as Spring is just around the corner here in FL (March).

One more question ....

To develop crown rot, how deep is too deep to have planted them? I don't think I planted any of them too deep, but perhaps I did with those two? Does crown rot happen right away or does it take some time before the plant perishes?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Feb 1, 2016 6:32 AM CST
The AHS advice is to have the crown not more than 1" below the surface. With your last question do you mean once it starts or from the time of planting? It wouldn't necessarily be immediate but once it starts you'd see the foliage wilting and it would most likely start to come away when you tug on it. Do you remember seeing how the leaves disappeared, or are dead leaves still there? Edited to add that you might find it difficult to differentiate from dormancy although I would expect the effects of rot to be quicker. Bacterial soft rot also often has a characteristically awful smell, but rot caused by other pathogens doesn't.

Were/are there any dead or sick trees close to your daylily beds?
[Last edited by sooby - Feb 1, 2016 6:37 AM (+)]
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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Feb 1, 2016 5:11 PM CST
Sue - From the time of planting. I don't think they had crown rot, but I have no way to know for sure. I saw a lot of foliage yellowing and dropping on all my plants during the aphid outbreak. So I wasn't looking for or paying attention to something else happening. I don't have any photos either to go back and look at what might be visible. Sad

No dead leaves laying near any plants either. We've had some pretty bad windy storms which tends to blow anything loose away. No nasty scent either. And no sick trees that I am aware of. The bottom of the raised bed is lined with a tarp because there is an invasive Brazilian Pepper Tree growing right near my fence near that daylily bed. Lots of roots have crept into my yard, so I am hoping the tarp keeps those roots from finding their way into the raised bed.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
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Name: Liz Quinn
Huntersville,NC (Zone 7a)
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Emquinn
Feb 1, 2016 6:13 PM CST
Becky: I have Calgary Stampede zone 7a. The first year I had it it disappeared. I was so sad. But the second year it came back and been on the increase ever since. Not sure this will help. I love your raised beds shapes.
This year is going to be interesting for bloom since the weather has been so up and down for us.
Liz
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger .
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Feb 2, 2016 1:14 PM CST
tugg said: I'm not sure anything I can offer would be relavent since our zones are miles apart. However I had the same thing happen with Lavender blue baby , king George, and Jamaican midnight quite a few years ago. For whatever reason they disappeared and I thought they had died.Two years later king George and Jamaican midnight reappeared and started growing really well. It took Lavender Blue Baby three years and it too bounced back.Im not saying this would be the case in your situation but you never know. During they're " disappearance " I went ahead and replaced the three plants: I should have saved my money because the original ones are very healthy and I now have an abundance of those three cultivars! Hilarious!

I just wanted to draw attention to this post, in case a lot of people did not see it. I never realized that a daylily might take two or three years to make a comeback. I have 'Jason Mark' and it is almost totally gone, not quite, and this gives me hope that it will make a full recovery.
I do have a few daylilies that are not listed as being dormant, that totally went away and are now putting up new leaves. Others listed as dormant were just as green as some of the greenest evergreens.

Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Feb 2, 2016 5:21 PM CST
Larry - I am seeing the same thing here in Florida.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Feb 3, 2016 12:32 PM CST
@Beckygardener
I have checked the bed that has my 'Calgary Stampede' now that the snow has temporarily melted. I could not specifically find its label but all the cultivars in that bed went dormant (as I would have expected). That would have to include 'Calgary Stampede' (CS) and includes 'Shinto Etching' (registered as evergreen by Munson) whose label I found and was still legible and which grows very near CS.
They are all now up above the soil surface by a fraction of an inch. That is not unusual, as whenever | have checked the soil temperature under the snow here the ground has never been frozen in the dead of winter. I did check about a week ago when we had about 9" of snow and below the snow the soil was not frozen. Daylilies can grow very very slowly all winter under their snow cover here.

Your plant may have gone dormant and may still not have woken up. In Gainesville, 'Ophir' and 'Hyperion' would go dormant, completely lose all their leaves and remain below ground until some time in March.
Maurice

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