Adeniums forum→Adenium Grafting: Trials & Information

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Name: Rick
Vancouver Island, Canada (Zone 8a)
Seed Starter Native Plants and Wildflowers Container Gardener Adeniums Peonies Plumerias
Dog Lover Hibiscus Region: Canadian Tropicals Cactus and Succulents Brugmansias
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RCanada
Aug 14, 2016 12:50 PM CST
Kadie,
With the Cleft or "V" grafts that I have done. I like to not use too long a branch and I have snipped some of the leaves off if there are many on the branch, otherwise I snip the top 2/3rds of each leaf off. I have started leaving the terminal growth tip with out snipping.
What I did this last time was choose which branch I going to use and snip off any leaves (if needed) prior to doing the grafting for a day. I wanted the cuts to heal up before doing my grafts?

I used a plastic film that is similar to Saran Wrapfor food. Doubled. Wrapped it tightly around Union.
When I make the "V" cut on the scion portion, I also slice the skin off on the sides of the Bottom of the V. About here " -V- ".
Told that most times this does not work is if the scion is not pushed into rootstock V firmly enough. Then wrap.
I place a baggy over the whole upper portion of plant and tie around the trunk.

I think the only thing to watch for is too much condensation build up in baggy.

Rick
"Many times a day I realize how much my own outer and inner life is built upon the labors of my fellow men, both living and dead, and how earnestly I must exert myself in order to give in return as much as I received"
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
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Rainbow
Aug 14, 2016 1:02 PM CST
Rick, thank you so much for your very succinct instructions. Smiling I had not thought to snip the leaves a day in advance of cutting the terminal scion thereby allowing it to heal. nodding
Name: Marica
Northern Ca mountains 4000' (Zone 7b)
Hummingbirder
crystalview
Aug 14, 2016 7:11 PM CST
Rick I like the first grafted tree. It reminds me of running man with hair on fire. Odd I know especially when I have not named mine :-)
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
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Rainbow
Aug 20, 2016 6:58 PM CST
Thumb of 2016-08-10/Rainbow/445a1e

Rick, it has been 11 days since doing the graft union. I removed the cellophane...the scion is brown but nut mushy and appears to have fused with the stem of the adenium. I don't see any new growth happening...did the scion rot?
Name: Rick
Vancouver Island, Canada (Zone 8a)
Seed Starter Native Plants and Wildflowers Container Gardener Adeniums Peonies Plumerias
Dog Lover Hibiscus Region: Canadian Tropicals Cactus and Succulents Brugmansias
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RCanada
Aug 20, 2016 7:17 PM CST
Is this photo of the graft after 11 days and you put the plastic back on it? Brown is not necessarily a good sign. The skin of the scion should still be green. Sometimes a small piece of the scion can shrivel up and the rest green.
Rick
"Many times a day I realize how much my own outer and inner life is built upon the labors of my fellow men, both living and dead, and how earnestly I must exert myself in order to give in return as much as I received"
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
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Rainbow
Aug 20, 2016 7:32 PM CST
That's the original photo right after grafting...I did not take a current picture.
Sighing! I just checked it again...one of the scions dropped off, the other has shriveled. Back to the drawing board!
Name: Rick
Vancouver Island, Canada (Zone 8a)
Seed Starter Native Plants and Wildflowers Container Gardener Adeniums Peonies Plumerias
Dog Lover Hibiscus Region: Canadian Tropicals Cactus and Succulents Brugmansias
Image
RCanada
Sep 1, 2016 9:57 PM CST
Here's what I gathered: Use an older stem for the scion, not green. Match the size of both stems. Cut the top of the scion two weeks before the actual grafting, so the cut can heal, and the new buds will be starting to grow. Take off extra leaves if they are kind of big, leaving the littlest leaves and bud growing. Leave some tiny growing leaves. OK. On grafting day, be in the shade, make the rootstock cut, then cut the scion, placing it onto the rootstock cut in a way that it might not fall off, vertical branch, hold it there with one finger, and apply the superglue with your other hand. Keep holding for 30 seconds while the glue sets. Cover with plastic bag, tied, put in protected place, no direct sunlight, Minimum temperature 65f, 18c, maximum, 85f, 30c three weeks to a month to complete, and take off the plastic bag.

The main #1 point the man makes that's different is to cut the scion on the 'mother' plant, with the idea to get the baby-bud leaves started growing two weeks before doing the actual grafting. The upper cut will be healed, and the beginning leaves will be already pulling up sap. I believe that this is really important. A fresh chop, only a bit of stem, without this new growth, will just sit there and struggle, as well as use energy to heal the upper cut.

Sap goes up because of respiration, the leaves and other bits breathe, and give off gasses and moisture. Therefore the sap from the bottom, rootstock, is pulled into the scion. If the scion is newly cut, without leaves starting, it won't be pulling sap, it won't have nearly the energy as this way, with leaves started. Brilliant! And the older stem could have some stored carbohydrates or something to help it live whilst growing new tubules, sap bringers, veins, whatever! hahaha.

I'm peering at my plants in a much different way now, and will soon be chopping away! wheee.

He said --he used to use the hold-it-in-place with plastic and rubber band, and he also demonstrated cleft grafting, (ugh). This way, there should be almost no scar, as the pieces are matched. I'm thinking perhaps less interior scar, also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
"Many times a day I realize how much my own outer and inner life is built upon the labors of my fellow men, both living and dead, and how earnestly I must exert myself in order to give in return as much as I received"
Name: KadieD
Oceania, Mariana Islands (Zone 11b)
Wet Tropical AHS Zone 12
Adeniums Tropicals Morning Glories Container Gardener Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 1
Dog Lover Cat Lover Bee Lover Vegetable Grower Butterflies Permaculture
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Rainbow
Sep 2, 2016 12:19 AM CST
Rick, it really does make sense about using an older stem scion with lateral buds already growing out, and pulling noursihment from the root stock. Thanks for this information and the video link. Angel
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Plumerias Roses Cactus and Succulents Adeniums Container Gardener Hibiscus
Miniature Gardening Orchids Garden Ideas: Level 1
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GigiPlumeria
Jul 31, 2021 8:48 PM CST
RCanada said:Here's what I gathered: Use an older stem for the scion, not green. Match the size of both stems. Cut the top of the scion two weeks before the actual grafting, so the cut can heal, and the new buds will be starting to grow. Take off extra leaves if they are kind of big, leaving the littlest leaves and bud growing. Leave some tiny growing leaves. OK. On grafting day, be in the shade, make the rootstock cut, then cut the scion, placing it onto the rootstock cut in a way that it might not fall off, vertical branch, hold it there with one finger, and apply the superglue with your other hand. Keep holding for 30 seconds while the glue sets. Cover with plastic bag, tied, put in protected place, no direct sunlight, Minimum temperature 65f, 18c, maximum, 85f, 30c three weeks to a month to complete, and take off the plastic bag.

The main #1 point the man makes that's different is to cut the scion on the 'mother' plant, with the idea to get the baby-bud leaves started growing two weeks before doing the actual grafting. The upper cut will be healed, and the beginning leaves will be already pulling up sap. I believe that this is really important. A fresh chop, only a bit of stem, without this new growth, will just sit there and struggle, as well as use energy to heal the upper cut.

Sap goes up because of respiration, the leaves and other bits breathe, and give off gasses and moisture. Therefore the sap from the bottom, rootstock, is pulled into the scion. If the scion is newly cut, without leaves starting, it won't be pulling sap, it won't have nearly the energy as this way, with leaves started. Brilliant! And the older stem could have some stored carbohydrates or something to help it live whilst growing new tubules, sap bringers, veins, whatever! hahaha.

I'm peering at my plants in a much different way now, and will soon be chopping away! wheee.

He said --he used to use the hold-it-in-place with plastic and rubber band, and he also demonstrated cleft grafting, (ugh). This way, there should be almost no scar, as the pieces are matched. I'm thinking perhaps less interior scar, also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...


This is an old post about grafting but this makes sense why some of my "still green" stems used for grafting shriveled but "the mature" stems seem to be okay. I also like the idea of cutting the scion a few weeks early so it can heal and buds can start to grow.

I had to remove the plastic, too high humidity caused perspiration.
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
Name: Walt Foss
Dallas Area (Zone 8a)
Adeniums
2ManyPlants
Aug 1, 2021 10:24 AM CST
Gigi,
The green tips of sion material often fail as flat grafts, but for some reason they have a high success rate as V grafts.
I learned this in a Thai video of a full time grafter churning out dozens of grafts per hour. He had rhythm pumping out flat grafts until he got to the green tips and then he V grafted the last piece.
I figured that there was a reason if they were doing it commercially. I think that it's got something to do with the increased grafting surface area.
I've used it this year with 100% success.

PS. I use grafting tape to hold the sion just tight enough for 8 days.
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Plumerias Roses Cactus and Succulents Adeniums Container Gardener Hibiscus
Miniature Gardening Orchids Garden Ideas: Level 1
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GigiPlumeria
Aug 1, 2021 10:43 AM CST
Thank You! Walt. I just have no luck in the V grafts. I don't think I have the proper tools to make the V ones. A grafting tape/kit has been on my wish list and I think I will for sure get one. I mostly like to grow from seeds but as you know, it is hard to get those different colored adeniums. So now that I have them I want to make sure I have a "duplicate" in case the main one goes kaput since adeniums are very susceptible to rot. More so than plumerias.

Maybe we should keep this chat "alive" and would love to see your grafting photos here. I will post my successful and "failed" attempts on this thread. (Mostly failed Crying for now.)
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Plumerias Roses Cactus and Succulents Adeniums Container Gardener Hibiscus
Miniature Gardening Orchids Garden Ideas: Level 1
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GigiPlumeria
Aug 1, 2021 10:45 AM CST
I have not seen any new posts of @RCanada and @Rainbow lately but would love to hear more on their progress.
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
Name: TJOE
Indonesia
Cactus and Succulents Bee Lover Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Fruit Growers Composter
Keeper of Koi Enjoys or suffers hot summers Adeniums Beekeeper
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Kaktus
Aug 2, 2021 12:58 AM CST
2ManyPlants said:Gigi,
The green tips of sion material often fail as flat grafts, but for some reason they have a high success rate as V grafts.
I learned this in a Thai video of a full time grafter churning out dozens of grafts per hour. He had rhythm pumping out flat grafts until he got to the green tips and then he V grafted the last piece.
I figured that there was a reason if they were doing it commercially. I think that it's got something to do with the increased grafting surface area.
I've used it this year with 100% success.

PS. I use grafting tape to hold the sion just tight enough for 8 days.


I think all commercial seller will use flat graft, as those will save the stem used, what they need is just one "growing point" , usually they use around 1 cm of the stem per graft, if V graft will take around 2 to 3 cm.
Only for the last one they will use V graft, because for flat graft they need the grafting tape to press the stem from top, which can not be done on the last one as the growing point is at the top of the stem, then they will use V graft for this.
If they look healthy, do nothing
Name: Walt Foss
Dallas Area (Zone 8a)
Adeniums
2ManyPlants
Aug 2, 2021 1:30 PM CST
Here's a followup on my most ambitious grafting project so far.
On 6/30, I decapitated all of the major branches off of a big beautiful Thai Soco with undesirable flowers.
I used a well rooted two year old cutting with a simple elegant red flower as sion material. This cutting had enough mature tissue to graft onto all 6 branches removed from the Thai Soco host plant.
I used the thicker mature sion material (from the bottom of the sion branch) for the flat grafts.
I used the green tip of the sion for a V graft on a smaller host branch.
I used the middle of the sion brach to make a new cutting. The base of the original cutting is alive and sprouting leaves again.
Thumb of 2021-08-02/2ManyPlants/520ab0
The stump of the cutting after it was topped and used as sion material.



Thumb of 2021-08-02/2ManyPlants/3cdffa
The Thai Soco host still held tight with grafting tape and rubber bands and also bagged.


Thumb of 2021-08-02/2ManyPlants/ec3d06
After 4 days exposed to the air and brought into bright indirect light outside



Thumb of 2021-08-02/2ManyPlants/e16c33


Thumb of 2021-08-02/2ManyPlants/fe7f4b
Growth of the flat grafts after 2 months.
All but 1 flat grafts have sprouted leaves and the last one has a nub which should leaf out soon.



Thumb of 2021-08-02/2ManyPlants/677bbe
A closeup of the V graft on the far side of the host plant.

Note the branch just to the right of the V graft is the original Thai Soco material.
I felt that it was too small to graft. I will either cut it off or graft onto it when it grows larger.

I'm happy with the way it's developed and I can't wait to see it bloom in the coming years.



Name: James
North Louisiana (Zone 8b)
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deepsouth
Aug 2, 2021 3:05 PM CST
Thumbs up looks good - if not professional @2ManyPlants

well done
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Plumerias Roses Cactus and Succulents Adeniums Container Gardener Hibiscus
Miniature Gardening Orchids Garden Ideas: Level 1
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GigiPlumeria
Aug 2, 2021 4:03 PM CST
Aww can't wait to see your grafting bloom. Hurray! But that is definitely a successful graft.

I have to redo a few of my grafts. The green part didn't make it, the tip that I grafted with flat graft using super glue seems to be okay. The mature (greyish ones are okay).

I tried to match the sizes of scions to the base of my flat grafts. I will redo this weekend. Good thing I left the stems longer from the base.
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
Name: Walt Foss
Dallas Area (Zone 8a)
Adeniums
2ManyPlants
Aug 3, 2021 8:37 AM CST
We've had a wet & humid year.
I took the grafting tape off of the Thai Soco after 4 days and it worked well.
I left this flat graft taped for 8 days and it had started to rot.

Thumb of 2021-08-03/2ManyPlants/25ba97


Thumb of 2021-08-03/2ManyPlants/b05886

I sprinkled fungicide powder all around the graft circumferance. We'll see if it arrests the rot.
I hindsight I should have undressed the graft after 4 or 5 days. D'Oh!
Live & learn.

Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Plumerias Roses Cactus and Succulents Adeniums Container Gardener Hibiscus
Miniature Gardening Orchids Garden Ideas: Level 1
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GigiPlumeria
Aug 3, 2021 7:35 PM CST
Yes I removed the graft after 3 days. It was creating too much moisture. I think I am having succes with my super glue grafting. Two of the grafts shriveled but the base stem is long enough that I can replace the scion. Hurray!

Do you think you can re-attach and superglue it?

Also I will be following your grafting style but I will use super glue. Lovey dubby I like the flat graft look more than the V cut. And the tip can be attached using super glue.
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite pastime. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/c... plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/g...
Name: Walt Foss
Dallas Area (Zone 8a)
Adeniums
2ManyPlants
Aug 5, 2021 8:57 AM CST
Gigi
I have a 50% 50% success rate with superglue. Somehow it gets into the graft or I fail to get a tight enough connection and it fails.
I saw a new trick on applying superglue using a wooden toothpick. 1st you apply the glue to the side of a toothpick holding it laterally. Then you slide the toothpick along the circumference of the flat graft. This made it easier to apply the glue right amount of glue than squirting it out of a bottle.

Stretching the plastic over the top and securing it with a rubber band is working better for me. Holds it tight & keeps bad things out for a few days until the graft takes.

You can recut and flat graft a 2nd time. Re cut both the host and the sion. Shorter sions tend to work better than those over several inches.
If all else fails use the tip of the sion in a V graft.
Good luck!

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