Roses forum: Please Help me with our roses. Begging you to watch

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Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Apr 13, 2016 5:53 AM CST
Well does it look like it to you?
Thumb of 2016-04-13/bhart90/be68f6


Are their any dangers or cons of using uncomposted material such as dried leaves?
Brenden
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Apr 13, 2016 5:58 AM CST
That looks like great soil.
Porkpal
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Apr 13, 2016 6:01 AM CST
That is actually the soiled bedding from the chicks we hatched.
Brenden
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Apr 13, 2016 6:04 AM CST
Also, I am attempting to grow roses from bouquets, and am keeping progress on YouTube
https://youtu.be/yGYEGRg5iKE
Brenden
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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gemini_sage
Apr 13, 2016 6:26 AM CST
Looks great! Can't really tell from looking, but if it has aged it should be fine. I don't know off hand how long is recommended, but just wanted to caution you about chicken poo because it is high in urea that can burn plants (like fertilizer burn) when its too fresh.

Leaves from deciduous trees decompose quickly, especially if they're mulched up, so those don't concern me much- they quickly draw lots of earthworms that turn them to black gold Thumbs up The only problem I've ever had was from wood chips. They take a long time to decompose and the microbes that do the job use a lot of the available nitrogen. I saw yellowing leaves that signaled the problem and I compensated with additional fertilizer. The following year it had decomposed and everything was lush without additional fertilizer.
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Apr 13, 2016 7:21 AM CST
Awesome thank you again Gemini!
Brenden
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Apr 13, 2016 8:44 AM CST
I routinely use fresh chicken coop cleanings around my plants - on top of the ground, not mixed in. I call it composting in place. Seems to work well.
Porkpal
Name: Sharlene
St. Gallen - Switzerland (Zone 6a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1
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sunnyvalley
Apr 13, 2016 12:59 PM CST
bhart90 said:Also, I am attempting to grow roses from bouquets, and am keeping progress on YouTube
https://youtu.be/yGYEGRg5iKE


Wish you luck with your attempt to root the florist roses. The success rate is normally quite low but sometimes you get lucky. I manage to root 2 out of 10 Espérance cuttings two seasons ago and tried a bunch of NOID Aldi roses last December - 3 out of 11 rooted. I have had much better luck budding florist roses onto root stock - success rate close to 100%.


Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Apr 13, 2016 8:23 PM CST
Man, I'd love to see some pictures!
Brenden
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Apr 13, 2016 8:25 PM CST
Espérance good god. EIGHTY DOLLARS?!??!?!? OK, PLEASE break down what you did to the exact detail if possible. I'm jealous as hell
Brenden
Name: Sharlene
St. Gallen - Switzerland (Zone 6a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1
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sunnyvalley
Apr 13, 2016 9:23 PM CST
Brenden, just chiming in while I am having my morning coffee, then I am off to work. I have some pics on my other laptop. Will get back to you tonight.
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Apr 13, 2016 9:45 PM CST
Haha, I'm going to bed for work TOMORROW haha I didn't think about time zones haha okay thank you.
Brenden
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Apr 13, 2016 9:52 PM CST
God,m you ha e baccara..... what I would do for one of those, I literally visited every website available and no one has it available
Brenden
Name: Sharlene
St. Gallen - Switzerland (Zone 6a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1
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sunnyvalley
Apr 14, 2016 1:30 PM CST
If you are referring to Black Baccara, yes and it is my DH's favourite rose
Thumb of 2016-04-14/sunnyvalley/42bec3

About the way I root my cuttings:
Rooting florist roses is a winter pastime for me. It can be very costly because named roses on offer in the florists are around US5.00 a piece. This last winter I just got a NOID bunch of 10 from the Aldi to play around with, also US5.00.
I have a setup down in the cellar. I take very short cuttings 3 or 4 bud eyes and I cut just below an eye. I use small cups initially filled with a coir/perlite mix and put them in a propagator with high humidity to root. When I see roots I transplant to a bigger cup. When they get too big for the propagator, I slowly acclimatize them but still keep adding water to the bottom of the propagator.

Thumb of 2016-04-14/sunnyvalley/d3926d Thumb of 2016-04-14/sunnyvalley/2c39f1 Thumb of 2016-04-14/sunnyvalley/c3a61b Thumb of 2016-04-14/sunnyvalley/fbe72a

Here are pics of the original Espérance and Flash Dance which I stuck in December 2014 and the first blooms on the cuttings end of March 2015
Thumb of 2016-04-14/sunnyvalley/af5baf Thumb of 2016-04-14/sunnyvalley/ed7461 Thumb of 2016-04-14/sunnyvalley/14bf1f Thumb of 2016-04-14/sunnyvalley/bc0fe9

And a bouquet of Espérance and another florist rose which I grafted onto rootstock in 2013.
Thumb of 2016-04-14/sunnyvalley/ef831c

As I said, rooting florist roses is rather expensive - I think budding is the way to go. First, instead of just one or two good cuttings you will probably have about four or five good bud eyes to graft and the success rate is near to 100% whereas with rooting I get about 30%.

Anyway that, in a nutshell, is how I do it.


Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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gemini_sage
Apr 14, 2016 2:12 PM CST
Very impressive Sharlene! I tip my hat to you.

What root stock do you use? I have access to lots of multiflora seeds so root stock plants would be no problem. Do you use seedlings for root stock or rooted cuttings?
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Apr 14, 2016 7:19 PM CST
First and foremost I am giving you the biggest hug I could give over the Internet!
That is a lot of useful pictures and info. My god, you guys are too nice to be real.


What rooting hormone do you use. Or if just water.. what is the Ph?

how do you manage NOT have rot from the humidity? Do you have circulation at all?

what light strength and temperature?

what is difference between budding vs rooting. And at what growth point do you graft to root? And what graft, and how do you graft? If you can manage to answer these without swearing at me. You would be the most patient person in the world.
Brenden
Name: Sharlene
St. Gallen - Switzerland (Zone 6a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1
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sunnyvalley
Apr 15, 2016 12:33 PM CST
Brenden - internet hug - it's my first and I gladly accept! Now regarding your questions .....

There is so much information in the internet published by people with far more experience than I. Two people that I would like to mention and from whom you can really learn a lot are:

George Mander: My rooting method is basically based his experiences (with a few changes). Here is a link to his method: http://www.helpmefind.com/gard...

and

Kim Rupert promotes the ‘Burrito Method’ and has a lot of other great info on his blog: http://pushingtheroseenvelope....

Basically, it is all trial and error and you have to find out what works best for you. In answer to your questions, my experience on:

Rooting hormone: I experimented about three years ago and stuck three cuttings each of the same rose, one lot with Clonex gel, one lot with Rhizopon rooting powder and one lot with nothing. I tried this with about 6 different rose and IMO there was no noticeable advantage to using a rooting hormone as I had about the results with the control group.

Water: I just use tap water. PH – no idea!

Humidity and rot: I dip my cuttings from the bush or the entire florist rose in a 10% bleach solution before I make the individual cuttings. I don’t know if it is my imagination but I think this helps and I had next to no rot. I also microwave the coir before I mix it with the perlite (50/50). I don’t have any ventilation in the propagator but the main thing to watch out for is the moisture of the rooting medium! If it is too wet you are going to have rot no matter how sterile things are.

Light and temperature: I have two Lightwave T5 LW 24-HO (4 tube 96 w) and set the heating matt in the propagator to 22C.

I would just like to mention that rooting florist roses is more difficult than rooting cuttings from your own garden. I don’t know if it is because the florist roses are somehow chemically treated to extend life or if it is due to freshness – the time between harvesting the rose and sticking the cutting. Although there are some garden roses that prove difficult as well, my success rate with them is much higher - cuttings harvested and stuck on the same day.

Budding (grafting) vs Rooting: First, when you root a cutting you land up with an own-root rose. Rooting is more time intensive and you need more material as each cutting has to have at least four bud eyes. If you used the same cutting for budding you will land up with four plants opposed to the one from the cutting.

Budding method: I prefer to T-bud however Chip-budding is an option that many favour. There is a season for T-budding as the rootstock has to be actively growing and the bark must slip whereas chip-budding, according to reports, can be done at any time of the year because the bark doesn’t need to slip. Personally, I haven’t tried any type of budding out of season. There are lots of videos on how to actually bud on the internet. The position of the bud depends on the type of rose you want. For a standard rose, you need a long rootstock cane and you bud at the desired height. For a bush rose you have to bud on the neck of the rootstock, that is to say below the points of growth, to avoid suckering.

This is the first time that I have ever written so much in a forum post. I hope sharing my experiences helps you find the best method best suited to your situation.

@gemini_sage
Neal:
I haven’t tried growing rootstock from seed but previously used my own rooted stock cuttings. I have now found a grower who supplies bare root Rosa Canina ‘Pfänder’ rootstock which makes life much easier. ‘Pfänder’ is more widely used for standard roses here in Europe, less for bush roses - Laxa and Inermis but also Multi Flora are preferred. I think it is best to use the rootstock best suited to your area. If you have access to Multi Flora seeds that must mean you have it growing in your garden. Have you considered air-layering? Works pretty well and you can bud and root in the same year.



Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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gemini_sage
Apr 15, 2016 8:29 PM CST
Multifloras are quite weedy and invasive here, but that certainly says something about its willingness to grow here. I suppose rooting cuttings would be the fastest approach. They layer themselves so easily I think cuttings would root easily too.

Thanks so much for sharing I tip my hat to you. Thank You!
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Apr 16, 2016 6:03 AM CST
Here are the roses I pruned and planted. The dirt looks darker and healthier in the picture. Don't be fooled, it's a bit lighter with more clay than it looks, but nonetheless it has many ingredients
Thumb of 2016-04-16/bhart90/7d5686

Brenden
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Bulbs Cottage Gardener Roses Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
gemini_sage
Apr 16, 2016 1:14 PM CST
Looks perfect Brenden Thumbs up Looking forward to progress shots! This stage makes me want to hover over them and watch for growth Hilarious!
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi

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