Daylilies forum: Preferred Foilage on Daylilies?

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Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Apr 4, 2016 6:39 AM CST
One that I like that has very tall scapes that do not flop over is Gudrid.
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Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
Region: Michigan Seller of Garden Stuff Seed Starter Cat Lover Daylilies Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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RobinSeeds
Apr 4, 2016 9:41 AM CST
I like the foliage in C the best, how do they describe that one when selling? Do they even describe the foliage when selling?
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
Apr 4, 2016 9:54 AM CST
Very few vendors even mention the foliage when describing the plants.
Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
Region: Michigan Seller of Garden Stuff Seed Starter Cat Lover Daylilies Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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RobinSeeds
Apr 4, 2016 11:24 AM CST
Thanks Seedfork, that will be an issue to find out which cultivars have the foliage type in pic# C. Good luck to me. Smiling
God blessed me with dirt.
('Mipii' on The LA)
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
Apr 4, 2016 11:28 AM CST
I would guess that type of foliage would come on low growing plants with small blooms that would make good border plants, maybe @Becky can tell us the name of her plant.
Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
Region: Michigan Seller of Garden Stuff Seed Starter Cat Lover Daylilies Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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RobinSeeds
Apr 4, 2016 12:22 PM CST
Yes, that makes perfect sense.
God blessed me with dirt.
('Mipii' on The LA)
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
Apr 4, 2016 3:06 PM CST
RobinSeeds
I found this old site, outdated for any new varieties, but very informative on many of the older ones. It has a better description of foliage for more plants than any other site I have found. Not all varieties have foliage comments, but many do, not as described here (A, B, C, etc.) . For example in the first entry under the letter "A":
"The shape is exquisite but the colour leaves something to be desired as far as brightness goes".
http://www.casarocca.com/html/...
Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
Region: Michigan Seller of Garden Stuff Seed Starter Cat Lover Daylilies Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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RobinSeeds
Apr 4, 2016 5:19 PM CST
Wow Larry, thanks for the link. I see lot's of reading in my future!

I came back to say @beckygardener; thanks for the post, what a great idea. You've just turned the industry upside down because now we know people are actually interested in the foliage too.
God blessed me with dirt.
('Mipii' on The LA)
[Last edited by RobinSeeds - Apr 4, 2016 5:24 PM (+)]
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Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Apr 4, 2016 5:41 PM CST
When I see foliage described by hybridizers, "arching" is the term used
which is also my favorite. Arching without kinks.
Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
Region: Michigan Seller of Garden Stuff Seed Starter Cat Lover Daylilies Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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RobinSeeds
Apr 4, 2016 7:04 PM CST
Yes Shirlee, without kinks is perfect.
God blessed me with dirt.
('Mipii' on The LA)
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Apr 4, 2016 7:41 PM CST
Larry - That link has some interesting information on it about foliage. Thank you for sharing that! You really are a good detective!!!

Robin - This forum is great! We can talk about anything including Rust Fungus which many other groups DO NOT like to talk about. The foliage question is something that I became aware of after planting a number of registered daylilies in a new raised bed. I was noting their growth habits as they became established and grew. A saw a wide variety of foliage and fans. That made me start wondering which foliage is desirable?

And now .... I really wonder which cultivars are considered perfect or near perfect daylilies?
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Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Apr 4, 2016 9:34 PM CST
Becky, I'm guessing that daylilies in shows are critiqued following certain
lists of characteristics to derive at what the show considers the best attributes.
I haven't done any shows so that is why I'm guessing.

When selling daylilies, the originator of the plant is likely to focus on certain
distinctive qualities in the hope that buyers will appreciate these qualities as well.
Especially when those details show a new line or a plant that exhibits something
different from the norm, which sometimes the buyer may not even notice
without the input of the originator's focus. There are so many registered or
unregistered daylilies, it is difficult to know what is actually different. What
may have been considered a flaw in years' past may have been introduced as
a notable new characteristic worth expanding on. So, ideas of perfection are
ever changing.

However, in our own gardens, we often notice certain characteristics we favor,
so we are the judge of what we like which in itself is a path to perfection from our
point of view. And that's a good thing.

Our preferences in our own gardens are the most important thing, I think. Overall, when
one thinks about it, the ideas or traits of perfection are really quite subjective.

Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Apr 4, 2016 10:11 PM CST
Robin and Larry - the foliage c is one of my seedlings. Remind me and I'll try to check during daylight hours to tell you who the parents are.

Siloam Double Classic has similar type foliage with beautiful double blooms. Short scapes with smaller blooms.

Shirlee - I agree with most of what you said. I agree
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
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Name: Marilyn, aka "Poly"
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
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Polymerous
Apr 4, 2016 10:46 PM CST
I was briefly a garden judge, never an exhibition judge, but I clerked a couple of shows and that in itself was educational.

The exhibition judges are judging each exhibit on certain merits - is the bloom scape true to its cultivar (in terms of registered flower size, color, traits, bud count, branching), is the exhibit free of injury, pests, pest damage, and obvious disease, and has the entry been groomed properly. That about sums it up. The judges obviously cannot judge on things like foliage (there is none), season of bloom (EE or VL), rebloom, weather resistance, disease resistance, rate of propagation, and so forth. The judges are judging ONLY the bloom scape in front of them, and have to judge according to what has been registered for the plant (I am guessing that it may help if they know that in their geographical area, a certain cultivar always or typically or never conforms to that registration data). This can lead to interesting results, when/where the registration data is faulty, and the exhibition judges have no personal experience of a cultivar.

Many years ago, I entered a single bloom of 'Four Star' into the single bloom division (I forget what that is called, and that was the only show I attended that I recall having that division). Having grown 'Four Star' for a few years, I knew that it was a typical polymerous bloom for that cultivar: 4 petals x 4 sepals all in a somewhat irregular asymmetric mess. (Yes, that is typical for that cultivar... it ran about 85% poly for me and a bit more than that nationally, and the blooms tended to be something of a mess for everyone, but it was my only poly in bloom on that day, and I was eager to enter a poly bloom (for educational purposes) but I did not want to sacrifice an entire scape.)



The registration data, however, had classed the cultivar as a "double" (maybe it was registered as a spider double? though in terms of spidery-ness it was at best a variant, if that), and since none of the judges were personally familiar with it, it got dinged accordingly. (I forget if it got no ribbon, or the lowest possible color of ribbon. Needless to say I was disappointed, but I eventually came to understand the reasoning.)

All that I remember of foliage judging from when I took the garden judge workshops was that upright foliage was bad, the foliage should arch nicely, and maybe that leaf streak was bad (those being the days shortly before rust, when leaf streak was pretty much the only disease to be worried about). If I were a garden judge today (I am not), I would be taking poor foliage health as seriously negative as upright foliage in my considerations. Obviously, I don't know if the current judges do so (though given the number of plants that are susceptible to rust that receive significant awards, I would have to guess not).

I have to say that until Becky started this thread, the growth habit (beyond uprightness and arching nicely (or not)) of the foliage never entered my (conscious) consideration... it would be interesting if any garden judges here weighed in on that.
Evaluating an iris seedling, hopefully for rebloom
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
Apr 5, 2016 5:21 AM CST
Entering a single bloom is called off-scape and can receive a ribbon from the local club, but not the AHS.

There are a lot of us garden judges, we are suppose to judge the entire plant as grown in our region, not just the bloom and scape. It is almost impossible to judge the foliage on a daylily that you do not grow, you may only see it a couple of times during the year and we know how foliage can change over time.
Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
Region: Michigan Seller of Garden Stuff Seed Starter Cat Lover Daylilies Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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RobinSeeds
Apr 5, 2016 10:32 AM CST
Very interesting information, thanks all. I have Siloam Double Classic and it's done amazingly well in dry shade.
God blessed me with dirt.
('Mipii' on The LA)
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Apr 5, 2016 6:13 PM CST
I checked on my Foliage "c" plant and I have it listed as unknown parents. So .... it's a mystery pedigree for that seedling. Here is the bloom from last year:

Thumb of 2016-04-06/beckygardener/36719c

Short foliage, short scape, and smaller bloom (5").


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Apr 5, 2016 6:30 PM CST
Ooh, a reverse bi-tone Becky, and a pattern on the sepals.
Lovely.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Apr 5, 2016 6:39 PM CST
Thank you, Shirlee! It also shows rust resistance. (Which is a huge plus for me!) What caught my attention about the bloom is the heart-shaped pattern. I am very pleased with this plant. The only negative is that the scapes sometimes produce blooms just barely above the foliage. It's a short cultivar that would be nice for a front of the garden planting spot.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Apr 5, 2016 6:56 PM CST
Plus a vivid green throat. Several positives, and the one negative can either be
overlooked or eliminated by a cross with similar characteristics and taller scape. Possibly, if you wanted to take it further. Or not, as a frontal spot sounds good.

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