Houseplants forum: Schlumbergeras

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Name: Sherry
West-Central PA (Zone 5b)
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keystone
Sep 12, 2011 11:42 AM CST
Some of these that are correctly named are VERY hard to find! What gives?
Name: Christine
Saugerties, NY zone 5a
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Christine
Sep 13, 2011 6:55 AM CST
I had to look up the common name Rolling on the floor laughing its a Christmas Cactus and I didnt know they were hard to find!
Name: Alan
Chandler, AZ; 85225 (Zone 9b)
Sunset Zone 13
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GardenGuyAZ
Sep 13, 2011 7:43 AM CST
I had a heck of a time finding one. I finally found one on eBay, from a lady who had actually had the plant in her family for over 100 years. You should have seen her plant, it was about 3 feet in diameter cascading over a HUGE pot. Just gorgeous. She sent me cuttings two years ago, and thus, my Christmas cactus that you see below. This is the true Christmas Cactus. The one sold way back in the day. You can tell this cactus from todays Christmas cactus, because they don't have the sharp points on the leaves like the newer hybrid cactus do.

Thumb of 2011-09-13/GardenGuyAZ/228fe9

























Name: Alan
Chandler, AZ; 85225 (Zone 9b)
Sunset Zone 13
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Cottage Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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GardenGuyAZ
Sep 13, 2011 7:50 AM CST
Here is a closeup of the leaves that shows the difference. The one on top is one of todays newer hybrid cactus. The true Christmas cactus is the one at the bottom:

Thumb of 2011-09-13/GardenGuyAZ/f9e49c

























Name: Lee Anne Stark
Brockville, Ontario, Canada (Zone 5a)
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threegardeners
Sep 13, 2011 8:30 AM CST

Moderator

Actually, I do believe that the one with pointy leaves is a Thanksgiving Cactus. S. truncata

The Christmas cactus is S. bridgesii

The Easter cactus is different again, being a Rhipsalis and has those upward facing pointy flowers that look like they've been glued on the ends of the stems.
Name: Alan
Chandler, AZ; 85225 (Zone 9b)
Sunset Zone 13
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Cottage Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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GardenGuyAZ
Sep 13, 2011 12:14 PM CST
Lee Ann you are correct, but they now sell the "Thanksgiving Cactus" during Christmas, because it more reliably blooms at Christmas, than the true Christmas Cactus. Look, next time you go into the store, at the Cactus being sold at Christmas, it has the pointed leaves on it, not the true Christmas Cactus leaves.

























Name: Lee Anne Stark
Brockville, Ontario, Canada (Zone 5a)
Perpetually happy!
Forum moderator Tip Photographer I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Critters Allowed Cottage Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Keeps Goats Keeper of Poultry Frogs and Toads Charter ATP Member Region: Canadian
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threegardeners
Sep 13, 2011 12:21 PM CST

Moderator

yep...and therein lies the major problem of trying to find correctly named ones. The big box stores are mass-producing them and selling them all off under whatever name they decide will sell more of them.
Name: Christine
Saugerties, NY zone 5a
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Christine
Sep 14, 2011 7:38 AM CST
Very interesting information Thumbs up
Name: Sherry
West-Central PA (Zone 5b)
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keystone
Sep 14, 2011 7:48 AM CST
Yes, the S. truncata plants are the ones with pointy segments. The S. xbuckleyi are the ones that are rounded and scalloped. I have four of the xbuckleyi plants. One of them has longer and darker green segments than the others, but the other three appear to be uniform.

With the truncata hybrids, you can play with the day length and get them to bloom whenever you want. I just brought some up from the basement that I have had under lights all summer, and they have buds the size of a pea on them. I ran the lights for only about six hours, and it's pretty dark down there when the lights shut off, so I'm guessing that triggered "time to bloom" for most of them.

Another problem with Schlumbergera is that so many of them have plant patents on them. The way to get around that is to just drop the name and sell it as a NOID, or call it something else. And even now there are people on ebay selling patented Schlumbergeras, so the patent itself is no protection.

I think Easter Cactus has now been reassigned to the Hatiora family. I have a terrible time growing these; even so, I have three of them that at least aren't dying (yet) under lights. :-)

In any case, I started breeding Schlumbergeras in 2009, and have been looking for new breeding stock. I have 20 seedlings from a cross of Limelight Dancer x Beach Dancer. The majority of them will probably bloom this year. Hopefully, I will have something nice to put out there to those people who collect them.

Saw Aspen go a couple of times on ebay for over $50. YIKES!
Name: Alan
Chandler, AZ; 85225 (Zone 9b)
Sunset Zone 13
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Cottage Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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GardenGuyAZ
Sep 14, 2011 7:52 AM CST
Yes, I saw how expensive that Aspen was. I thought to myself, you can keep it for that price...lol! It is pretty though...maybe I'll wait till the price comes down a little. There was a buy it now one for just under $30. But still, that is too much for a plant in a 4 inch pot! I choke on that.

Alan

























Name: Sherry
West-Central PA (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hostas Daylilies Irises Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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keystone
Sep 14, 2011 8:12 AM CST
I got Aspen from Logees Greenhouse about a month and a half ago. I think they still have them. Had I known they were going to be selling on Ebay for $50, I would have ordered ten! LOL!
Name: Jacquie (JB) Berger
Wrightstown, New Jersey (Zone 6b)

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: United States of America Region: New Jersey Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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JB
Sep 21, 2011 11:06 AM CST
I started my collection of Christmas/Holiday cactus a few years ago also. I found information with pictures that helped me identify at least the different stems. I found it under History of Christmas Cacti.

Thumb of 2011-09-21/JB/b4a944

S.orssichiana has wide, large and shaply serrated stem-segments ( #2) Blooms end of August or Sept.
S. truncata has stem-segments of similar shape but a little bit smaller. It blooms in Oct. and November.
S, russelliana has rounded and nonangular stem stegments ( #1) smaller than the previous one. Blooms from Jan. to Feb.
S. opuntioides has steeem segments looking like small Opuntia stems (#3) It blooms March or April
These four species were discovered during a period that extends from 1819 to 1978.

If I could find the link I would share it, but as usual it has gone to cyber heaven. *Blush*
If the picture does not show the entire leaf, I will be happy to privately email you the picture if anyone is interested in having it.

I have quite a few and have them listed in Plant Scout on Daves Garden. I am trying to eventually bring that information here, but it is quite a job. I am always looking for someone to trade with, but I would appreciate only trading identified plants. I am trying to identify an old heirloom given to me that is supposed to be orange with a pink center. To do it properly is so time consuming.

I hope you all enjoy the information and please feel free to contact me with any questions. I am still learning and will continue to do so. But, I am willing to share information anytime.



Name: Jacquie (JB) Berger
Wrightstown, New Jersey (Zone 6b)

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: United States of America Region: New Jersey Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
Container Gardener Hummingbirder Farmer Keeps Horses Dog Lover Birds
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JB
Sep 21, 2011 12:01 PM CST
I wanted to mention something else about the (Spring Cactus or Easter Cactus)Rhipsalidopsis.

I decided I would like to propagate and sell them, so I found a grower who advertised several different colors. Price was perfect so, I ordered them, and when they arrived they were beautiful healthy plants, but much to my surprise, they were all patented. Not with the normal PP we usually see, but with a statement that said For decoration only, do not consume. Propagation prohibited. I thought about it awhile and then I called the grower. it seems he did not actually grow them, he shipped them in from Woodhill Greenhouses in Lynden, ON Canada. So, I called Woodhill. They are definitely patented. My point here is, that I think anyone propagating and/or selling these plants should advertise the fact they are patented if in fact they are, so others do not waste time and money and space on plants they can not reproduce, if that is why they purchased them.
Now you all know my pet peeve. I wanted to share that experience with you so you are aware that there are people out there who will not tell you the plants are patented. I worry about reproducing patented plants all the time. That is one reason I usually try and purchase from someone who will not withhold that information just to make a sale.
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Name: Sherry
West-Central PA (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hostas Daylilies Irises Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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keystone
Sep 22, 2011 7:39 AM CST
I think if you do a search on plant patents and schlumbergera, you can sort of narrow down which ones are patented. There are websites that list the information about patented plants. I believe I also read that a plant patent expires after 20 years, so the early Cobia hybrids such as Red Radiance are no longer under patent and have entered public domain.

Even so, there are people selling plants on ebay that ARE under a patent. I don't know if they know the ramifications if they are caught or not, but they are doing it.

Plant patents do not extend to the use of the plant as breeding stock. You may use any plant that is patented as a pod or pollen parent, which is good.

None of my plants will be patented. I just don't see the need to do it, and I have no way of enforcing it.
Name: Alan
Chandler, AZ; 85225 (Zone 9b)
Sunset Zone 13
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers Cottage Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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GardenGuyAZ
Sep 22, 2011 10:47 AM CST
Sherry, how big were those plants you got from Logee's? Nice and healthy? How big of a pot?

























Name: Jacquie (JB) Berger
Wrightstown, New Jersey (Zone 6b)

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: United States of America Region: New Jersey Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
Container Gardener Hummingbirder Farmer Keeps Horses Dog Lover Birds
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JB
Sep 22, 2011 12:35 PM CST
Sherry, if the plant patents do not extend to the use of plants for breeding stock, what is the purpose of the patent? And, does that only apply to pods or seeds? I do all cuttings of my tropicals, no seeds or pods. Would you please explain that to me.
I had to become a registered nursery in NJ in order to ship plants west of the Mississippi, so I am obliged to go by the regulations of the NJ Dept. of Ag. My GH gets inspected yearly and I get certified if I pass. Therefore, I am in no position to make any stupid mistakes by propagating any patented plants. : Shrug!
I am still trying to figure out how they enforce the patent laws. The men in my family are all Criminal Lawyers and they know nothing about patent laws. Rolling my eyes. So I have no one to explain the law to me. I am 83 and holding, but I love learning all I can about these things.
Thank you for sharing.
Do you know anyone who owns or at least has a picture of a S. microsphaerica? I would love to get my hands on just one cutting of that baby.
Name: Sherry
West-Central PA (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hostas Daylilies Irises Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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keystone
Sep 22, 2011 1:04 PM CST
Alan, the plant that they sent me of Aspen was nice. About 6" tall in a 2" pot, but it was ready to be repotted up into a larger pot when I got it. I think Logees is very pricey, but Aspen is hard to find. I didn't feel as though I got ripped off or anything. It was as nice as the plants that I got from Whitton Greenhouses.

JB, the patent is extended only to the named plant and it's exact genetic clones. Suppose I hybridize a Christmas Cactus that I call "Ambrosia" and decide to patent it. The patent only controls exact genetic copies of the plant that I call Ambrosia, which would be cuttings/layerings, etc. It does not include the pollen or the potential seeds, since crossing Ambrosia with something else would not result in seedlings that are an exact copy of Ambrosia. All the seedlings would be different genetically. Cuttings of Ambrosia would be forbidden to be sold, because they are exact genetic copies.

In short, you can hybridize with a patented plant, using it's seed making potential, but you can't take cuttings or layerings etc. I hope that makes sense.

Alot of nurseries get around this by not putting the plant out there with the name.
[Last edited by keystone - Sep 22, 2011 8:05 AM (+)]
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Name: Sherry
West-Central PA (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hostas Daylilies Irises Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
Cat Lover
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keystone
Sep 22, 2011 1:07 PM CST
Found this on a Plant patent page:

Asexual Reproduction

Asexual reproduction is the propagation of a plant to multiply the plant without the use of genetic seeds to assure an exact genetic copy of the plant being reproduced. Any known method of asexual reproduction which renders a true genetic copy of the plant may be employed. Acceptable modes of asexual reproduction would include but may not be limited to:

Rooting Cuttings
Grafting and Budding
Apomictic Seeds
Bulbs
Division
Slips
Layering
Rhizomes
Runners
Corms
Tissue Culture
Nucellar Embryos

The purpose of asexual reproduction is to establish the stability of the plant. This second step of the invention must be performed with sufficient time prior to application for patent rights to allow the thorough evaluation of propagules or clones of the claimed plant for stability thus assuring that such specimens retain the identical distinguishing characteristics of the original plant.

Name: Jacquie (JB) Berger
Wrightstown, New Jersey (Zone 6b)

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: United States of America Region: New Jersey Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
Container Gardener Hummingbirder Farmer Keeps Horses Dog Lover Birds
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JB
Sep 22, 2011 3:16 PM CST
Sherry, that is the same information that I have, I was hoping I had not made an error in my understanding of all that garbage. Thanks so much for taking the time to look it up and pass it on. It is such good information, I only wish more people would pay attention to how they mark the plants. I get very frustrated going by the law and watching others get away with what they do. I am going to print out your info for my file. Thanks again.

The Aspen is a white CC isn't it? I saw it on Logee's website today for about $12.00. I was really surprised. I have White Christmas that I got from Whitton and a White I got cuttings from a lady.of course has no name. God I hate that but I sell them nameless and people buy them. Most of the buyers on eBay have no clue what they are getting anyhow. The real collectors buy by name. I bought a real pretty Peaches and Cream from Hirt. I have no other white for some reason. What amazes me is the price of some of these plants. I paid $9.99 from Hirt and $4.99 from Whitton. Both were beautiful plants. Everyone survived after planting and bloomed almost immediately.

Must get dinner. Have a good evening. Group hug
Name: Sherry
West-Central PA (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hostas Daylilies Irises Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
Cat Lover
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keystone
Sep 22, 2011 6:31 PM CST
JB, Aspen has been altered somehow to give it fringey petals, and that's why I think it's so hard to find. It's phylloclades are really thick and have kind of a twist in them. You can tell that it's a little different than a normal Christmas cactus.

By the way, I love your birds! I had a cockatiel named Joe for 15 years, and he was the love of my life (even though the little bugger prefered my husband over me.) I don't have time for a bird now, and I don't miss the noise, but Joe was a great experience.

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