Daylilies forum: So when does all the fan increase happen?

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Name: Sandi
Franklin, WI (Zone 5a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Daylilies
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Seedsower
Apr 19, 2016 8:51 AM CST
This is probably an ignorant question, but something I've never really paid attention to.

I planted some dinky individual seedlings in my community garden plot in early summer 2015. We are talking about six inches tall, not much to them.

I paid attention to the weed control the remainder of the summer, not really to whether or not the plants were growing/multiplying.

This spring I have at least a few that have multiplied to five or six fans, one seedling multiplied to a small clump of about a dozen fans.

Did this all happen last year and I didn't see it, or does the plant do it's "stuff" underground, and shoot up the additional fans in spring?

Thanks for your wisdom/experience Rolling my eyes.
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Apr 19, 2016 9:53 AM CST
I have seen the plants making new fans during the summer, fall, or
even now there are many showing new fans emerging.
Sometimes, I've wondered if they also do this during warmer days in the winter,
but I don't observe them as much then.

Currently, the new fans are tiny ones, so they are easy to miss unless you are specifically
looking for them. I'll try to get a photo to show you.

No, absolutely not an ignorant question. It's a very good question. No doubt others
may want to know the unknowns to them as well. There are no ignorant questions.
[Last edited by mistyfog - Apr 19, 2016 9:55 AM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Apr 19, 2016 10:05 AM CST
I certainly have asked myself the same question many times. I was checking out my plants all throughout the year. It seems some plants multiply like rabbits, others very slowly. So you may not see any increase in some plants over the year, others seem to send up a new fan a foot or two away, still others form grass like clumps with lots of little fans. It just seems there are many different ways the increase happens. I think most of it happens underground as the roots and crown develop but it seems at this time of year we begin to see more of the new growth actually showing the new fans.
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Apr 19, 2016 10:20 AM CST
Seedfork said:It just seems there are many different ways the increase happens.


I'm with Larry here, for sure. I've not only wondered when it happens, but how it happens. It seems on those I have it can happen anytime during the year. At least some are growing new fans that are a decent size that weren't there last fall. I assume they've been growing underground for a while. But new fans occur when they send up a scape, especially if it appears a single fan is dividing. Then the scape tends to come up between those growing points and when it's all over with there are two fans left. Others put up fans out from the clump and also have some in the clump. I've wondered if those that 'run' have picked up a stoloniferous trait from a species ancestor, especially since many also seem to grow fans directly off the crown. And some fans bloom without adding new fans at all. Several of the tetraploid daylilies I'm growing are slower to add fans. I think that's probably just a trait of those plants. Some of those are also among the ones that simply have more fans in the spring than when they shut down for their take on hibernation during the winter months.

Donald
Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
Apr 19, 2016 11:43 AM CST
Here ya go. Note how tiny the new fan is in the photo. Easy to miss if not
looking for it. Also, I couldn't believe it, but while in the garden taking the photo,
I noticed a scape forming. It is about 1 inch tall so far. Way too early here for that.

Thumb of 2016-04-19/mistyfog/f6a0ac

Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
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cybersix
Apr 19, 2016 1:49 PM CST
Mine produced lots of fan starting from past autumn. All the plants have grown a lot in few months. Stella is a big clump now and it's in its fourth year. I noticed some fan looks a bit far from the original plant, others are really tight. One of the DLs put up the new fans in a row. But no scapes in between them.
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Coatesville IN (Zone 5b)
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Claudia
Apr 19, 2016 7:31 PM CST
I have also wondered about this. So glad someone asked!
Weeds are flowers too, once you get to know them. ~Eeyore
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Apr 19, 2016 8:37 PM CST
I pulled these two seedlings out for a photo op. Earlier this year, both were single fans like the one on the left. Then the one on the right developed two central growing points, as if it were naturally dividing. I watched a long time and finally the scape emerged between them. About the same time the scape appeared, two more growing points started up on the outer sides of the fan(s). Right now there are two taller ones and two smaller ones with the scape in the middle. (Previewing shows you have to enlarge the photo to see it all).

When I moved them today, I saw growth coming up on the one that looks like a single fan, but it's still hidden down between two leaves. I expect a scape on that plant in a while. It seems like this kind of increase is a type of division that accompanies a scape. When the scape is gone, that fan growth is a whole new fan. I'm not real sure about the two new smaller ones. I haven't seen that a lot. Doesn't seem likely they would be associated with scapes, so I'm thinking fans only. Going from a single fan to four fans by summer isn't too bad, though.
Thumb of 2016-04-20/needrain/9fabfa

Donald
Name: Davi (Judy) Davisson
Sherrills Ford, NC (Zone 7a)
Davi
Apr 20, 2016 6:44 AM CST
It my understanding that daylilies increase during periods of active growth and I have found that to be true in both my Michigan garden (zone 5) and my North Carolina garden (zone 7). One period of active growth begins two weeks after the daylily has stopped blooming as daylilies "rest for a bit" after their bloom. During that rest period, it is a good time to divide them and line them out unless you are living in the deep south where rot becomes a problem if you divide in hot weather. Early bloomers will increase at a different time than late bloomers....but they both will be increasing 2 weeks after their bloom has ended so I'm lining out all summer long for optimum increase as I'm fertilizing line outs during that period of active growth and watering them well! The other period of active growth is in the spring when plants are coming up. Increase may not happen if plants are not well cared for....watered, fertilized, etc. or if you have selected a daylily that is not suitable for your climate.
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Apr 20, 2016 6:56 AM CST
May explain the extra increase I'm seeing this spring. The winter was so mild, a lot of plants grew off and on in the winter months. The temperatures only got low enough to put them into 'resting mode' so as soon as it inched back up to warmer temps they resumed growing. The few that are completely dormant began growth sooner. It doesn't seem to have made the bloom scapes come earlier, though. I think bloom will mostly correspond to what it's been previously. I am wondering now how many fans those big containers can handle before it inhibits scapes forming.
Donald
Name: Teresa
South central KY (Zone 6b)
Consider the lilies of the field
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bluegrassmom
Apr 20, 2016 7:36 AM CST
Thanks, for posting that Davi. I had never thought about it after the bloom is over. What do you use when transplanting?

I think part may be genetic too. I have some that are pampered and still a low fan count Angry
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Apr 20, 2016 7:54 AM CST
The growing point (shoot apical meristem or SAM) on a daylily fan can be vegetative (produces only leaves) when the fan is young or small or it can become reproductive (produces only the scape) when the fan is older or larger. The time when the growing point switches from being vegetative to being reproductive is basically the time when new fans can start to grow. That is because it is at that time that axillary or lateral buds can either be created or start to grow. There can be an axillary bud for every leaf in a fan (although usually only one axillary bud grows, sometimes two start to grow, etc.).

There are cultivars that seem to have less strict control of when new buds can start to grow. In those cultivars it seems that the primary growing point (SAM) cannot control the axillary buds as strongly (cannot keep them inhibited) and they start to grow even when the growing point is vegetative. 'Stella de Oro' is one of those cultivars.

The time when the SAM switches from being vegetative to being reproductive is not easily identified as it is a chemical process to begin with.
Maurice
Name: Davi (Judy) Davisson
Sherrills Ford, NC (Zone 7a)
Davi
Apr 20, 2016 8:18 AM CST
Teresa

When I line out two weeks after bloom, it is very hot here in North Carolina.... so I just use a light application of Plant Tone since it is an organic that won't burn the plants. Once foliage has regrown and I see the increase fans growing, I'll give the line outs a foliar spray of Miracle Gro. I have excellent well drained soil.....full of compost and worms.....which helps when lining out in really hot weather. Keeping the plants well watered also helps a lot. But my routine would be disastrous in clay soils in zone 8 or 9. Plants that are lined out during hot weather would likely rot.
Name: Teresa
South central KY (Zone 6b)
Consider the lilies of the field
Seller of Garden Stuff Irises Hostas Region: Kentucky Lilies Peonies
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bluegrassmom
Apr 20, 2016 8:24 AM CST
I amend my clay soil but I don't think I should try it in the summer. How late do you divide in the Fall? I try to be done in Sept.
Name: Davi (Judy) Davisson
Sherrills Ford, NC (Zone 7a)
Davi
Apr 20, 2016 9:01 AM CST
September 15 is my target date, Teresa. By then I'm done with shipping, done with dividing, done with collecting seedpods....done done done!! And ready for a well earned vacation!
Name: Teresa
South central KY (Zone 6b)
Consider the lilies of the field
Seller of Garden Stuff Irises Hostas Region: Kentucky Lilies Peonies
Region: United States of America Garden Photography Vegetable Grower Hummingbirder Cat Lover Heucheras
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bluegrassmom
Apr 20, 2016 11:02 AM CST
I can imagine that you are lol! I dug over a dozen orders this week. Our ground is so hard and dry that I broke one shovel handle. I went to the short steel handled one. It is hard work, then you always have fans that need to be reset.
Name: Sandi
Franklin, WI (Zone 5a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Daylilies
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Seedsower
Apr 20, 2016 11:30 AM CST
Thank you for everyone's input on this, I look forward to more responses on this issue! I hardly ever see such increase even on established plants, I was quite surprised to see the amount of growth since last summer.
Name: Teresa
South central KY (Zone 6b)
Consider the lilies of the field
Seller of Garden Stuff Irises Hostas Region: Kentucky Lilies Peonies
Region: United States of America Garden Photography Vegetable Grower Hummingbirder Cat Lover Heucheras
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bluegrassmom
Apr 20, 2016 12:36 PM CST
I just love those that seem to want to grow. One of favorites that is healthy but seems to stay the same size is Butter Pecan.

Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Apr 20, 2016 1:03 PM CST
needrain said: Earlier this year, both were single fans like the one on the left. Then the one on the right developed two central growing points, as if it were naturally dividing. I watched a long time and finally the scape emerged between them. About the same time the scape appeared, two more growing points started up on the outer sides of the fan(s). Right now there are two taller ones and two smaller ones with the scape in the middle.



Wow Thank You! Donald!

I didn't know it works like that!
Tomorrow I'm going to check my fans to see if I can find the same kind of growing points on them Thumbs up Thumbs up


Mayo
a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Apr 20, 2016 2:55 PM CST
@Mayo62
Mayo, usually I only see a scape that ends up between to growing points resulting in two fans where there was only one. I'm not at all sure how often those extras grow.

Also, this is only one method I see with the daylilies. They put fans up beside older fans - sort of a normal type increase - and a few will have new fans put up a few inches away from the main clump. Those last ones have to have run underground out from the clump and then came up. Since mine are grown in containers, I'm not really sure how far away from the clump those might grow. Mine have come up at the edge of the container because that's as far as they could travel, but there have been as much as 8 inches between the new fan and the main clump. As the clumps grow in the containers, that kind of increase is going to be hard to spot.
Donald

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