Daylilies forum: Pods with no seeds?

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Name: Brittany
New Orleans, LA (Zone 9a)
bnloren
May 2, 2016 11:12 AM CST
Hello,

I used to collect Daylily seeds with my dad at our house in Wisconsin (zone 5). My dad has since passed away and I now live in Louisiana (zone 9). Most of the seedlings I have planted down here (in pots) have died, but I do have one which is finally flowering this year. I have pollinated the flowers via self pollination and using pollen from a nearby daylily (although I'm not sure its the same ploidy, etc). Flowers that I am unable to pollinate will form no pod, but those I do pollinate grown a normal healthy-looking pod. However, after 4-6 weeks, the pods shrink, turn brown and fall off. When I cut them open, there are no seeds inside.

This plant has a lot of sentimental value to me, so It's very important that I get seeds from it. What is going wrong? Bad pollination? Too wet? Too dry? The plant itself is growing very well and has produced 10 flowers in 2 months, with 4 more buds developing.

Help!
Thumb of 2016-05-02/bnloren/d677c6
First flower; March 16 2016
Thumb of 2016-05-02/bnloren/5b2a76
Forming seed pods
Thumb of 2016-05-02/bnloren/88290d
Seed pods after 4-6 weeks
Thumb of 2016-05-02/bnloren/c6cd15
Plant today; May 2 2016


Thanks!
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
May 2, 2016 11:33 AM CST
It may be that it is one of those daylilies that won't produce seeds from its own pollen (self-incompatible), or the other pollen you are using is the wrong ploidy. Do you have access to any other daylilies where you know their ploidy? If so I would try both diploid and tetraploid pollen on it and see if that makes a difference. Maurice @admmad may be able to add something to this.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
May 2, 2016 12:25 PM CST
bnloren Welcome!

You stated that the plant had sentimental value to you, and you may already know this, but daylilies will not come true from seed. You might want to concentrate on growing a stronger more vigorous plant and not try getting seed. That way you would have exactly the same variety when it multiplies. It might even grow some proliferations that you could transplant.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
May 2, 2016 1:45 PM CST
Four to six weeks is a very long time for a pod to remain on the plant and not have any seeds in it. Usually if a plant is self-incompatible or if the ploidy of the pollen is different from that of the pod parent then the pod stays green and growing for less than two weeks and then dries up.

I don't have a reasonable explanation for the behaviour of this plant as it is not acting in a typical manner for any of the explanations.

However, if you would like to have more fans of exactly the same plant (for example, so that danger of the plant dying and being completely lost is reduced or so that you can share pieces of the plant with others) then Seedfork's suggestions are good.
Maurice
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
May 2, 2016 2:05 PM CST
If it's not likely to be due to self-incompatability or ploidy, I might look at fertilizer, possible pests, and more sun if it's in the shade. But certainly as Larry and Maurice have said if you want to increase that specific daylily and have all the plants be the same, then you need to propagate it vegetatively rather than by seed.
Name: Brittany
New Orleans, LA (Zone 9a)
bnloren
May 2, 2016 6:03 PM CST
Thank you all for the suggestions so far. I have learned that daylilies are not true from seed, and I am ok with that. Although any seeds produced will not be exactly like the parent, they will be from the line that I collected with my father. I would love to ensure that the current plant thrives and could potentially be divided, but I'm nervous about hurting the plant in that process. Seeds would give me some breathing room in case my original plant doesn't make it for whatever reason.

I'm wondering if maybe weather conditions are hurting the pods? I've read that too much humidity/moisture can rot them, or that high temps may kill them? It's been raining almost every day, heavy humidity, and about 85 for a high. This plant is originally from WI, so maybe it's not meant to handle these conditions. I may bring it inside and place it under a grow lamp to see if I can get some seeds to form.
I don't know the ploidy of mine (and I don't think there's anyway to tell?); is it possible to buy daylilies of known ploidy somewhere, like at a greenhouse? I'd buy different kids to try to cross them with mine, if I can get ahold of them.

Thanks everyone!
Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
Dog Lover Daylilies Organic Gardener Houseplants Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 1
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DogsNDaylilies
May 2, 2016 6:17 PM CST
Brittany,

Welcome to NGA!

I agree, you may have an issue with ploidy. You asked about getting plants with a known ploidy and you have come to the right place! Nearly every daylily in the database here on NGA has a known ploidy. There are SO MANY daylily sellers that you have PLENTY of options for buying a known-ploidy daylily. (You could also go to a local nursery, buy a daylily that has the a name, and research whether it's diploid or tetraploid right here on our site!) I recommend purchasing from a daylily seller, though, you'll have MUCH better selection, service, and probably better prices, too.

You could start here:
The thread "Daylily Classifieds.. ****UPDATED**** 10 /2/16" in Daylilies forum
Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
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DogsNDaylilies
May 2, 2016 6:21 PM CST
Brittany, do you know the name of the daylily you have? It looks like it could be Stella d'oro. Does that name ring any bells?
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 2, 2016 6:23 PM CST
You can buy daylilies with known ploidy at various places, specialist growers, garden centres, etc. The label may not show the ploidy though, you would need to look up its name in the database here (click on Plant Database top left of this page) or else in the American Hemerocallis Society's registration database here and normally the ploidy for that daylily will be shown: http://www.daylilies.org/DaylilyDB/

You may be able to find out some local sources via this page for your AHS region:
http://www.daylilies.org/AHSreg13.html#R13gardens

Cross-posted with DND, sorry.
[Last edited by sooby - May 2, 2016 6:25 PM (+)]
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Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
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cybersix
May 3, 2016 1:00 AM CST
Welcome! Brittany!
It may be of help if you get to know the name of your daylily. DND my Stella has thinner leaves, but I'm not an expert. Anyhow I had a similar thing happening with Stella the past year, pods would set but after a couple of weeks they rot.

Here is the link to the discussion on here, I don't know if it can be of any help:
The thread "Stella de Oro aborts seed pods" in Daylilies forum
Sabrina, North Italy
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Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
May 3, 2016 4:36 AM CST
Welcome Brittany!!
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 3, 2016 4:48 AM CST
DogsNDaylilies said:Brittany, do you know the name of the daylily you have? It looks like it could be Stella d'oro. Does that name ring any bells?


I got the impression from the original post that this is a seedling:

"I used to collect Daylily seeds with my dad at our house in Wisconsin (zone 5). My dad has since passed away and I now live in Louisiana (zone 9). Most of the seedlings I have planted down here (in pots) have died, but I do have one which is finally flowering this year."

Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Hybridizer Peonies Vegetable Grower Seed Starter Organic Gardener
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bxncbx
May 3, 2016 5:04 AM CST
Welcome! Brittany! If your plant is having a hard time adapting to LA moving it indoors under grow lights for the summer is probably a good idea. I've heard several people here say that when the temps get above 90F and humidity is high it's much harder to get a pod to form. I saw that myself last summer! When the weather cools down in the Fall you can put it back outside.

I've had really good luck buying daylilies from NGA members. If you just want some inexpensive ones with known ploidy that would be a good way to go!

Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
May 3, 2016 6:48 AM CST
Welcome! Brittany!!!
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Name: Heidi
CT (Zone 5b)
Always find the awesome in your day
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mom2cjemma
May 3, 2016 6:52 AM CST
Could it be that this plant is not pod fertile?? If that was the case than maybe you should collect the pollen and use it with another flowering daylily.

I have a NOID daylily that does the same thing. Every single pod starts to develop and then they shrivel up and die off. It is a prolific bloomer and I love it but doubt that I will ever see any seeds from it.
Heidi
Name: Brittany
New Orleans, LA (Zone 9a)
bnloren
May 8, 2016 9:01 AM CST
Thank you all for your wisdom!

I could not find any daylily seller that is near New Orleans, but I did go out and get a "Pardon Me" daylily from a local nursery. It is listed as a diploid and I suspect my plant is indeed a stella (thanks, DogsNDaylilies!), which should also be diploid. I will try crossing them to see if I get viable seeds. I've also moved my plant to the side of the balcony where it will get more morning sun and less afternoon sun so it won't get as hot, but overall will get less light. I'll probably bring it inside once the summer kicks in.

I'll post an update in a few weeks. Thanks again!

Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
Dog Lover Daylilies Organic Gardener Houseplants Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 1
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DogsNDaylilies
May 14, 2016 7:16 AM CST
I'm glad we could help!

I hope 'Pardon Me' does as well in your area as it does here, I love mine. It's a cute, shorter flower with a beautiful red bloom and it even has a bit of fragrance in my garden (although you have to stick your nose up to it). I am hybridizing with it because I actually prefer daylilies with shorter scapes at the moment and I love reds and purples, in particular.

I suggested that your plant might be Stella d'Oro because it's a very common yellow daylily and it's likely that's what yours is from the way it looks. It's beautiful and wildly (and widely!) popular because of it's beauty and excellent flowering habit.

If you're certain that your plant came from a seed your or your family planted--and not from part of a clump you purchased/received--then it's very likely that your flower is a descendant of Stella d'Oro. (Unfortunately, though, if your plant is an original seedling that you planted from seed, the only way to get a true replication of it is to divide it as it clumps and keep it labelled and separate from the others. Just as with people, animals, etc...daylily seeds are the product of genetic recombination and are not genetically identical to the parents. I'm pretty sure this holds true even if the daylily was self-fertile, due to the potential for genetic mutations.)

I hope you've received the answers you need and I hope you'll continue to participate and be a member in our daylilies forum!

Weedyseedy
May 14, 2016 11:01 AM CST
I can never resist dusting pollen on escaped old fulva when I go by it, since I have huge clumps of it. After thirty years I should know better-but hope springs eternal and as I go by I grab stamens from dips, tets, seedlings, pry pollen out of the edges of double fulva petals and end up with dozens of seed pods that all eventually shrivel and fall off. The longer they last and the fatter they get the more I hope. I think there is some word describing doing the same thing over and over again with the same results!! Weedy

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