Irises forum: My NOID iris

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Little Rock Arkansas
BabyBoomerBloomer
May 10, 2016 6:38 PM CST
5 years old and needs a name.
Please help.
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Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Irises Vegetable Grower Butterflies Region: Wisconsin Keeps Horses Cat Lover
Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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tveguy3
May 11, 2016 8:02 AM CST
Nice historic, looks a bit like Princess Beatrice, but you would have to plant a test plant to be sure. Smiling
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. - Alexander the Great
Fort Worth, TX (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Cat Lover Daylilies Roses Lilies Irises
Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Sempervivums
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javaMom
May 11, 2016 8:56 AM CST
It's very pretty !!!
Name: Mary Ann
Kentucky
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Region: United States of America Hostas Hummingbirder Daylilies Birds
Irises Keeps Horses Region: Kentucky Farmer Container Gardener Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Muddymitts
May 11, 2016 8:57 AM CST
Hi B3 -- I can't help you with your Iris, but I wanted to welcome you here!! Welcome!
Thoughts become things -- choose the good ones. (www.tut.com)
Name: Arlyn
Whiteside County, Illinois (Zone 5a)
Irises Beekeeper Region: Illinois Celebrating Gardening: 2015
crowrita1
May 11, 2016 9:37 AM CST
There are (or rather, were) lots of those "orchid pinks", or" light lavenders" around.....I'm thinking it's a Sass iris, from late '20's-early '30's.....maybe "Pink Opal" ?

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I think "Helen Field Fischer" is a bit too "pink", and the beard is too "sparse"
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Does it have any "scent" ? And, if so, how would you describe it ?"
Little Rock Arkansas
BabyBoomerBloomer
Apr 30, 2018 12:38 AM CST
Hi Everyone,
I'm sorry I've been busy for awhile.
I'm also sorry I gave all my acorns to tveguy3. I meant to give each of you an acorn.
Tveguy you are correct when you say it is historic, and crowrita1 you are correct in calling it a Sass iris - we think. I have iris experts all around the globe trying to name this gorgeous iris for me. The general consensus as of right now is that it is a Sass iris, probably from the late 20s or early 30s, and the name is 'Imperial Blush'. A good name - it does look Imperial.
The 'Imperial Blush' iris is growing in the Royal Botanical Gardens in Canada. They were nice enough to send me a photo of their 'Imperial Blush' Iris. It looks like an exact twin to my Iris.
I am 99.9% positive it is "Imperial Blush'.
I have sent rhizomes to two iris experts - one on the east coast and one on the west coast. It has not bloomed for either of them yet.😟
But it certainly is happy here in Arkansas!
I had never grown irises before when I saw this one growing by an old deserted restaurant building, and it is a traffic stopper. I sweved off the highway it was so beautiful.
It looks as though it is lighted from within like a Christmas ornament - so gorgeous.
I have many, many of them now and gladly sharing rhizomes.
BBB
Name: Arlyn
Whiteside County, Illinois (Zone 5a)
Irises Beekeeper Region: Illinois Celebrating Gardening: 2015
crowrita1
Apr 30, 2018 7:22 AM CST
There have been lots of us "Historic Iris Lovers" who have "tilted at this windmill", for quite a while!
Imperial Blush was introed by Hans Sass, and one of the parents was Aphrodite, the other parent was Rheingauperle (Goos & Koenemann). It had fairly wide distribution, and was ....or is.......grown pretty widely. In my efforts to find an example of "IB", I received plants from three "fairly accurate "sources....and all three were "different irises" ! Two of those three have been "test grown" by a fairly well respected "iris expert", and his idea was they WEREN'T "IB", and he didn't know WHAT they were. The third example...he wasn't sure about. So, several of us started "swapping plants around", and none of our "Imperial Blushes" really seemed to match one another.
Now to further "muddy the water", Hans' brother, Jacob, used Hans' iris, Trostringer, along with iris Aphrodite, in HIS breeding program, and registered: (Aphrodite pops up, again !)
Pink Satin in '30
Helen Field Fischer in '39
Pink Opal in'34
Twin Sisters in'32
Pink Demoiselle in '38
all these were the results of the same cross (Trostringer X Aphrodite). All of these are VERY similar (some more so , than others) and of the whole lot, it's *my opinion* that Helen Field Fischer had the widest distribution. The "Real" helen Field Fischer (the lady) was the sister of "Henry Field", who ran a very populars Seed and Nursery company....and he naturally sold irises, and, it's my thinking that one he sold a LOT of was "Helen Field Fischer". Besides being his sister, "the Real Helen" was a noted "plant expert" of her day, and hosted a very popular radio program about flowers, plants, etc.
in ordering...from different sources....examples of what were "supposed to be" Imperial Blush, Pink Satin, and "Blue Hill (another Hans Sass iris, with no parentage listed)....Helen Field Fischer (or what we THINK is Helen Field Fischer!) turns out to be sold...or passed around...quite often as these "other" irises ! So this is going to be a real, tough nut to crack ! I, too, have examples of my "noid" being grown all over the country, ....by some fairly knowledgeable growers, and, some have said, "Oh!, That's "IB"", others say "Pink Satin", and still others, "Helen Field Fischer".......and while it *may* be a perfect match for their "test plant", the real problem is...is the "test plant" correct ? With out an example of "IB" (or Helen", or Pink Satin, or 'whatever") that has been grown, continuously , in the same place, since it was acquired "from the hybridizer", one can't be sure that the identity is "true" Shrug! !
Please keep us posted on your findings, as there are quite a few folks interested in this !
(edited to correct parentage of Imperial Blush....my goof!!)
[Last edited by crowrita1 - Apr 30, 2018 3:54 PM (+)]
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Name: Evelyn
Northern CA Sierra foothills - (Zone 8a)
Region: United States of America Region: California Annuals Bulbs Butterflies Cat Lover
Foliage Fan Irises Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Vegetable Grower
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evelyninthegarden
Apr 30, 2018 11:31 AM CST
Arlyn ~ That is simply fascinating information! Where did you get the history of all that? And why does our database, as well as AIS wiki say that Imperial Blush is a result of Aphrodite X Rheingauperle?

I love the info regarding Henry Field and his sister as well. Maybe you could write a book if you have other historical information like that. I would be first in line to buy it!
Name: Arlyn
Whiteside County, Illinois (Zone 5a)
Irises Beekeeper Region: Illinois Celebrating Gardening: 2015
crowrita1
Apr 30, 2018 3:49 PM CST
You (as well as the data base, and the wiki)are correct onthat parentage !....I listed the "wrong parent" (Trostringer instead of Aphrodite) *Blush* !
The info on Henry Field , his sister, and the iris named for her....that came from a back issue of ROOTS (the HIPS magazine).
If anyone is really interested in "older" irises, I would urge them to check out the HIPS website....there are lots of interesting articles, and resources, there:

https://www.historiciris.org/

The AIS website also has lots of info on ALL sorts of irises, and, by searching both the Iris", as well as "the hybridizer", a lot of interesting things can "pop up"
http://www.irises.org/

and Fritz' website also has loads of information available:
http://irisparadise.com/Iris/i...

Old vendor's catalogs (of which both HIPS and AIS have example of, online) can be a real goldmine of information, as well.
Jacob, and Henry Sass were noted for using each other's intros (or, in many cases, un introduced seedlings) in their breeding programs, so the shared genetics really complicate the issue , as well as that many (especially Hans' irises) DON'T have the parentage listed, or, an "unnamed seedling" (which might, or might NOT ! have been named, and introduced, later, with no change made in the :stud book") might be listed as one parent.
A great many of the older hybridizers were also know to "sell off" their unnamed seedlings, in "job lots" to other "plant sellers" , or, to donate them to various cities, for landscaping purposes , and , that makes for some really interesting possibilities. i.e. :imagine that Jacob Sass crossed Trostringer and Aphrodite (he did !0, and from that cross, had 31 seedlings (may have been more, may have been less, maybe those two parents were crossed SEVERAL times, with a much higher number than 31seedlings !), and , on blooming, 14 were "tossed" because of various faults. Now, in 1930, Jake selects his "favorite from the remaining 17 irises, names it "Pink Satin", and offers it in his catalog. Then , in 1932, he takes his "second favorite", names it "Twin Sisters", and offers IT for sale. Then, in 1934....maybe needing some more irises to sell, decides that another of those seedlings should , or could, find a market....so, Pink Opal is selected and named. Then....still imagining, now!....that in1939, Henry Field visits Jakes farm, to pick our some irises to add to HIS catalog, and spies another "pink" one in that row of "old seedlings (and, even though the color is more "orchid', that "pink"...orchid was as close to pink as anyone had come , so far), and asks to buy it, for sale in his catalog....asks the name, and , with some "quick thinking" on Jake's part, is told, "Well, it so happens that the name of THAT one is Helen Field Fischer....I named it after your sister, because so many folks love her radio program !" So "Helen Field Fischer "(the iris) gets sold all over the country, to all kinds of gardeners, farm wives to veggie growers, and , possibly even used as a "bonus plant" (free Helen Field Fisher iris with every $10 purchase of seeds !...Could be !?), and theen , finally in 1938, jake decides to plow under the remaing seedlings , to make room for some "new" ones, and say's "Hey, that one on the west end of the row is really pretty darn , nice...and a good grower, too...maybe I should offer it for sale...or even use it as a bonus plant ! I think I'll call it "Pink Demouselle" ! Remember, we're just "imagining", but these types of things DID happen, and spread around a great many very similar irises...some "named", and some" unnamed", and a GREAT many that LOST their name, when they were passed on to daughters, neighbors, or friends !
And, here we are , 20, or 40, or even 100 years later, trying to "put a name" to them Blinking ! It CAN be a lot of fun, VERY educational, and a GREAT hobby......but it can ALSO be VERY exasperating !! Rolling on the floor laughing
Name: Evelyn
Northern CA Sierra foothills - (Zone 8a)
Region: United States of America Region: California Annuals Bulbs Butterflies Cat Lover
Foliage Fan Irises Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Vegetable Grower
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evelyninthegarden
May 2, 2018 12:24 AM CST
Arlyn ~ I did join HIPS as well as AIS and maybe TBIS, I'm not sure on that one.

Yes, your story sounds very plausible, and trying to identify the real old historics can be a bit of a challenge. They didn't seem to be so strict on the rules, or following them, but it's not for us to blame or judge them. Still, it can be a bit confusing, especially since there are so many similar ones, and, like you said, could have been crossed and recrossed...without the pedigrees, as a matter of expediency. Thank you for sharing that story.

I feel as though I have grown up with Henry Fields, but really, I have just been getting his catalogs for many years.
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Irises Vegetable Grower Butterflies Region: Wisconsin Keeps Horses Cat Lover
Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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tveguy3
May 6, 2018 4:16 AM CST
Gurney's and Henry Field are all the same company now.
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. - Alexander the Great

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