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Avatar for Frillylily
Aug 8, 2016 7:40 AM CST
Missouri (Zone 6a)
Bulbs Enjoys or suffers cold winters Enjoys or suffers hot summers Ponds Peonies Region: Missouri
Lilies Keeper of Koi Irises Hydrangeas Garden Photography Cottage Gardener
Does the amount of variegation in these vary with the amount of sun they get?
Avatar for RolRod
Aug 12, 2016 1:12 PM CST

clintbrown said:Brunnera macrophylla ‘Sea Heart’ is a very good plant. I was a skeptic because I've never been able to grow 'Jack Frost' here. However, this plant's thick and rough leaves really do protect it from our heat more. It's a much improved version!




Hi Clint, Where is "here"? Curious as to how they would do in Chicago. Thanks!
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Aug 12, 2016 1:23 PM CST
Name: Rose
Oquawka, IL (Zone 5a)
Echinacea Hibiscus Dahlias Clematis Charter ATP Member Region: Illinois
Garden Photography Heucheras Hummingbirder Hostas Garden Art Birds
@RolRod

I live in west central Illinois, and it's doing great in my gardens! I've posted a picture of one of them (lost tag, so not sure of the variety) on this thread. I also have a niece in Rockford that is having better luck with Diana's Gold than I have! Grumbling
When all is said and done, there’s more said than done.
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Aug 12, 2016 4:02 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Clint Brown
Medina, TN (Zone 7b)
Beekeeper Garden Art Hellebores Heucheras Hummingbirder Garden Procrastinator
Sedums Sempervivums Region: Tennessee Region: United States of America Ferns Echinacea
I'm in Tennessee. This summer has been a nightmare!
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Aug 13, 2016 8:30 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Bob
Vernon N.J. (Zone 6b)
Aquarium Plants Bookworm Snakes Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Heucheras
Echinacea Hellebores Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Hostas Region: New Jersey
It has been a tough summer the last few days have a heat index of over 110 . Both are holding up so far.
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Aug 21, 2016 12:52 PM CST
Name: Rj
Just S of the twin cities of M (Zone 4b)
Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 1
Jack Frost starting to fade, Sea Heart still looking great
Thumb of 2016-08-21/crawgarden/9a7581
As Yogi Berra said, “It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
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Aug 25, 2016 9:55 PM CST
Name: Rj
Just S of the twin cities of M (Zone 4b)
Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 1
Amazed that the variegata put out some new leaves!
Thumb of 2016-08-26/crawgarden/9bb612
As Yogi Berra said, “It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
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Sep 17, 2016 12:09 PM CST
Name: Charlie
Aurora, Ontario (Zone 5b)
Maintenance of Perennial Beds.
Just read through this thread. Should have asked my questions here.

We currently have eight different Brunnera cultivars in our mixed perennial beds, most of them we've had for over three years (includes Brunnera Variegata (apparently = 'Dawson's White')).
I've never noticed reversions in any of our Brunnera until this year and this year, for the first time, I'm just noticing reversions back to the species in two of our three 'Dawson's White'.

Richard Hawke (the Plant Evaluation Manager at the Chicago Botanic Garden) has said that they've probably spent more time removing reversions from 'Dawson's White' than from any other cultivar.
Has anyone else seen reversions in their 'Dawson's White'/Variegata? If so how successful was your method for removing the reversions before they overwhelm the cultivar? Apparently, pinching out the reverted leaves is one approach and dividing the plant with teasing out reverted parts is another.

I've also read that stressed 'Dawson's White are more likely to show reversions than other Brunnera cultivars. In our case, I would have though our two reverters are in a better location than the one non-reverter. Although we've been watering the garden through this very dry summer, the non-reverter is in a location which dries out quickly. At the same time, is not showing much new growth.

The reason I've just noticed this is that our spring perennials are largely hidden by our taller perennials through the summer and I accelerate cutting things back at this time of year to get light through (also to stop powdery mildew spores from overwintering, etc.).

Picture this Sept 16.

Thumb of 2016-09-17/SunnyBorders/df3e18
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Sep 17, 2016 8:22 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Bob
Vernon N.J. (Zone 6b)
Aquarium Plants Bookworm Snakes Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Heucheras
Echinacea Hellebores Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Hostas Region: New Jersey
Sorry I have never had that one. Hope someone can answer.
Avatar for Shadegardener
Sep 18, 2016 9:40 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
I have 'Variegata' and I do get a few reversions. It's in full shade but in a dry bed with lots of oaks. I had never made the connection between reversions and stress. Have had mine for years but it's never grown really big, probably due to the dry shade. Can't compare to others because they end up dying on me. I do run into reversions with Hosta 'June'.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Sep 18, 2016 10:42 AM CST
Name: Charlie
Aurora, Ontario (Zone 5b)
Maintenance of Perennial Beds.
Thanks, Bob, Cindy.

Cindy, do you, with you plant, need to take the reversions/reverted leaves out?

Our other current problem with Brunnera is with 'Alexander's Great'.
Planted one last year and it's seeding; as expected, not true to the cultivar.
Was apparently a sport (plant now patented) found in his garden in Belarus by a guy called Alexander.

Pictures below (today).
First a comparison between 'Alexander's Great' and 'Jack Frost' (latter planted a number of years ago).
We have no other seeding from our other Brunnera.
Stopped using Brunnera macrophylla because it's seeding around became a nuisance.

Thumb of 2016-09-18/SunnyBorders/e800fe



Below suggests a need to pull out at least seedlings close to the mother plant;
that since reversions in the direction of the wild type are normally more robust than the cultivar itself.
Am beginning to even think that 'Alexander's Great' itself is too robust for me!

Thumb of 2016-09-18/SunnyBorders/cc98ac
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Sep 19, 2016 2:07 PM CST
Name: Rj
Just S of the twin cities of M (Zone 4b)
Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 1
Shadegardener said:I have 'Variegata' and I do get a few reversions. It's in full shade but in a dry bed with lots of oaks. I had never made the connection between reversions and stress. Have had mine for years but it's never grown really big, probably due to the dry shade. Can't compare to others because they end up dying on me. I do run into reversions with Hosta 'June'.


Have had the "Variegata" for 7 plus years, full shade until the apple scab hits, than depending on the severity of the apple scab have anywhere from part shade to full sun, some supplemental watering...no reversions up to this point. All these years and it still is fairly small.


Thumb of 2016-09-19/crawgarden/39dbae

The "Jack Frost" is really starting to looked ragged, "Sea Heart" is still doing well.

Thumb of 2016-09-19/crawgarden/75179e
As Yogi Berra said, “It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
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Sep 19, 2016 3:48 PM CST
Name: Charlie
Aurora, Ontario (Zone 5b)
Maintenance of Perennial Beds.
Thanks, RJ.

Very interesting to see all these pictures. It's extremely interesting to see seasonal changes (e.g. as old leaves break down and new ones come in).
For instance, the old leaves on Variegata/Dawson's White do seem to die off very markedly around the pale edges, perhaps irrespective of the growing conditions.

It's also nice to hear that Variegata/Dawson's White doesn't seem to invariably end up with reversions. The bit about stress causing reversions is just something which I read in one source. Perhaps that claim is incorrect. As noted, it was my (apparently) less stressed two plants that have reversions this year, not my (apparently) more stressed one. Perhaps it's the opposite; the more stimulated the growth, the more the likelihood of the revisions.

Was also an interesting question asked previously about any light/shade effect on Brunnera leaves, including their patterning. Apart from necrotic/dead bits in older leaves, I've never noticed/paid attention to other possible changes like fading. Will have to look closer.

For us, I do feel it's worth focusing on perennials like Brunnera. There aren't many workhorses of our mixed perennial beds in spring. For us, besides bulbs, it's lungworts (Pulmonaria), primulas, Brunnera and the hellebores I've been adding that are the stars of our beds in spring.
Last edited by SunnyBorders Sep 19, 2016 3:49 PM Icon for preview
Avatar for Shadegardener
Sep 19, 2016 6:13 PM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
I do pull out the reverted leaves on 'Variegata' as I don't want them hijacking the original plant. I have tons of the species Brunnera and it's a thug. Hard to control, self seeds like crazy and hard to pull out established plants.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Sep 20, 2016 4:43 PM CST
Name: Charlie
Aurora, Ontario (Zone 5b)
Maintenance of Perennial Beds.
Thanks.

Had those problems with the species too, Cindy.
Didn't have the species planted over large areas so was able to eliminate it.

It's unfortunate that expensive plants are typically much better behaved than cheap (or free) ones.
Avatar for Shadegardener
Sep 21, 2016 7:46 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Charlie - I let some of the species Brunnera grow in a wilder part of the garden where the soil is crummy and pretty dry. Every once in a while I dig some of the plants out to minimize their "territorial" tendencies.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Sep 21, 2016 7:44 PM CST
Name: Charlie
Aurora, Ontario (Zone 5b)
Maintenance of Perennial Beds.
Sounds like you have a bigger garden than us, Cindy.
Suspect a bigger area to garden can give more options.

Divided the first of those two reverting Brunnera today.
Very easy; the eight unverted plantlets(?) just fell apart.
The two reverted ones were much bigger and still connected.
Planted two groups of unreverted.
Hoping they'll be around next spring.

I feel sure, with that plant, that simply cutting off the green leaves would not have solved the problem.
The associated root development was much stronger than that of the rest of the original plant.
Avatar for Shadegardener
Sep 22, 2016 10:14 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Charlie - thanks for that info on the root systems. I've always hesitated messing with my one 'Variegata' based on my sad experiences with 'Jack Frost' but it seems like it would be a benefit to dig it up and get rid of the reverted material.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Sep 22, 2016 10:48 AM CST
Name: Charlie
Aurora, Ontario (Zone 5b)
Maintenance of Perennial Beds.
Hope it works for you, Cindy.
I think a lot of gardening is trial-and-error.
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Sep 25, 2016 3:05 PM CST
Name: Yardenman
Maryland (Zone 7a)
I have a Brunerra here and I think it is Jack Frost, It struggled for years in the shade of a euonymous shrub. Never got bigger but never died either. Then I cut back the Eonymous shrub 2 years ago and it doubled in size. But it dries back in late Summer here.

If I divide it (and I hesitate to do so because it is old and I only have the one), where would the new division be happiest? I can keep it in a pot for whatever season is best for developing its roots (I do that routinely for cuttings and such.

I ask because I've read conflicting advice and I figure actual growers know. This is a plant I cherish (from years of enjoying) but don't really know much about.

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