Daylilies forum: 'Frankly Scarlet'

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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jun 13, 2016 8:27 PM CST
Well, this plant is on my want list, and the database shows it to have six inch blooms, but checking with a few members that have it, some say it only produces four inch or smaller blooms. When I go online looking for the plant, it seems it is almost always listed as having small blooms. Three and a half to four inch blooms it seems is the normal listing for it.
Anyone out there grow this plant and get large six inch blooms?
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jun 14, 2016 5:26 AM CST
This is another where there are two daylilies under the same name. There's an All American one and a registered one. The All American may be a trademark so not really an accepted name. I had a quick look for a plant patent but didn't find anything - I'll look more thoroughly later or maybe someone else might search the uspto. If it's just a trademark then the cultivar could be anything. A trade designation should not be in single quotes because it is not a cultivar name. The registered 'Frankly Scarlet' is a tet. I believe the All American daylily sold under that name is a dip but I'm going from memory and haven't yet verified that. I guess another database entry that needs amending, presumably again the rust rating applies to the non-registered one.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jun 14, 2016 5:57 AM CST
@sooby,
You seem to have a lot of info on these "impostors' for a lack of a better word. Would it be possible for you to post a comprehensive list of them, so we could all be aware of what to look out for. I know the list is ever increasing so it might not be practical.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jun 14, 2016 6:26 AM CST
I just remember a few that have been discussed elsewhere, such as the AHS email Robin. Another is 'Plum Perfect', which has an All American version however the registered one with that name appears to be pictured on the NGA database page. I haven't checked if the AA one is just a trademark or if there is also a patented cultivar name.

If you're interested in a daylily but it has TM or the r symbol beside the "name", be suspicious. Check out anything with Lady in the selling name because of the Lovely Lady series. If a plant says patented or applied for (PPAF) then check it out to make sure it isn't a duplicate name. To be correct under the code of nomenclture both the trade designation and patented and/or registered name should be given by sellers. The trade designation should be in a different font and the cultivar name should be in single quotes. A trade mark should not be in single quotes because it is not recognized as a cultivar name under the code.

We had notification that internet service in our area will be off or intermittent until 10 pm while they fix something somewhere but I'll try and get back to this later.

Name: Avedon
NE Tex (Zone 8a)
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Avedon
Jun 14, 2016 10:53 AM CST
I just looked at the Oakes Daylily Catalog and they list Frankly Scarlet as an All American Daylily Selection. I just noticed that there is no designation for this one being a tetraploid, so I guess they are selling the diploid version and what the plant we are growing here is the diploid. Our flowers are 4" or less. I will also say whatever this is, it is a wonderful plant, but I don't think it reblooms here.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jun 14, 2016 12:06 PM CST
I also just noticed that the registered 'Frankly Scarlet' is an Evergreen, and the impostor from American Daylily and Perennials is Dormant.
I looked up the address for American Daylily and Perennials and it shows to be :
Address: 31706 E Pink Hill Rd, Grain Valley, MO 64029
Has anyone in Missouri ever visited this place, on google street view it looked like just an old house.
I called the 1-800 number on their site, the first time a got a survey for a Caribbean Cruise, the second time I got a recording of their hours, but no one was available to answer the phone.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Jun 14, 2016 12:14 PM (+)]
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Name: Avedon
NE Tex (Zone 8a)
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Avedon
Jun 14, 2016 1:54 PM CST
To add to the confusion, Oakes Frankly Scarlet diploid is an evergreen. Confused
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jun 14, 2016 3:10 PM CST
"Wow what a surprise!!!
Oakes Daylilies seems to be a major source for these impostor daylilies, so I called them to see what the deal was.
I was told not to worry about the differences, that there are registered daylilies with the same names, but it was not important, and that I should be more concerned about children with leukemia than worry about daylilies with the same name and different stats than the registered ones. Now you can all make your own decision on whether or not you want to buy from Oaks Daylilies:
https://www.oakesdaylilies.com/shop/?filter_filter-category=...
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jun 14, 2016 4:53 PM CST
Sighing!
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jun 14, 2016 5:11 PM CST
I am removing 'Frankly Scarlet' from my list, the rust rating was one of the main attractants for me, and the bloom size also could be a toss up, and I might actually get a dormant instead of an evergreen!
Name: Liz Quinn
Huntersville,NC (Zone 7a)
Region: North Carolina Cat Lover Dog Lover Daylilies Bee Lover Birds
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Emquinn
Jun 14, 2016 7:12 PM CST
Always learn something new. Thank you for the information. Won't be ordering Oakes Daylily.
Liz
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger .
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
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Natalie
Jun 14, 2016 7:34 PM CST
I have Frankly Scarlet, and mine has small blooms. It's really tall this year though, so they stand out. When I was in the garden this morning, I couldn't figure out which daylily it was that was so tall with red blooms! I was surprised when I read the name. It's never been this tall before, but it seems to have settled in nicely. When I need more room though, it will probably go. The blooms are a deep red, but they are a little small for my taste.
Natalie
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jun 14, 2016 7:38 PM CST
I doubt that is the true 'Frankly Scarlet', do you know where you got your plant from? It is registered as having six inch blooms.
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
Cottage Gardener Dog Lover Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: United States of America Echinacea Xeriscape
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Natalie
Jun 14, 2016 7:44 PM CST
Larry, I do know where I got it from, which doesn't mean anything in my case. I bought it from a friends nursery who bought it from the local daylily club in Utah. It was one of the very few that I bought from her that seemed to have at least the right color based on the description, and at the time, I summed up the problem with the bloom size to it being new in my garden. The majority of plants that I bought from her were marked wrong though. This one stayed because I liked it, and I thought it was the correct plant. I've used it for hybridizing, but I left all of the seedlings behind when I moved, and I tossed out the tags because the house was going on the market. We ended up not selling, but I have no idea if the seeds were from a dip or tet cross. I doubt I'll use it again for anything but a garden plant.
Natalie
Name: Ken
East S.F. Bay Area (Zone 9a)
Region: California
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CaliFlowers
Jun 14, 2016 8:10 PM CST
Seedfork said:"I was told not to worry about the differences, that there are registered daylilies with the same names, but it was not important, and that I should be more concerned about children with leukemia than worry about daylilies with the same name and different stats than the registered ones. Now you can all make your own decision on whether or not you want to buy from Oakes Daylilies.


What I'm taking from this, is that they "...don't give a d*mn." Rolling on the floor laughing

Thank You! and good night. I tip my hat to you.
springfield MO area (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier
Frillylily
Jun 15, 2016 10:30 AM CST
I don't order from Oakes, their plants are expensive through the roof. Rolling my eyes.


I just emailed All American Daylilies to ask who the hydbrizer of 'Dream Souffle' is (they say "new" 2009) ((( it is actually Dublin Elaine btw )))
I got a notification back that the mail is undeliverable due to inactive address.....

Looks to me like they commandeer any ol thing they like, rename it themselves and sell it as theirs! Whistling
Name: Avedon
NE Tex (Zone 8a)
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Avedon
Jun 15, 2016 10:44 AM CST
I just e-mailed Larry and I will say the same thing here--what does the American Hemerocallis Society think about people who are knowingly selling daylilies with the wrong registration, is this fraud? About our "Frankly Scarlet"---It's a passlong plant and I talked to the lady who gave it to me--she bought it from a plant nursery probably 12 or more years ago, and couldn't remember the name, but when I said "how about Frankly Scarlet", she said that did not sound right. As I have said before, it is a small flower, but we love it. It is a vigorous grower and there is no rust that I can detect. My husband divided the original plant a couple of years ago and the divisions are already very big. As to the name, my husband was calling it "Red Rover" said he liked that name better than Frankly Scarlet anyway, so "Red Rover" it shall remain to us. Smiling
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jun 15, 2016 1:07 PM CST
I've seen it said elsewhere that Dream Souffle is 'Dublin Elaine' but again there is confusion between a trade designation and a cultivar name. If they write Dream Souffle TM then it is not a cultivar name it is a trademark. Many plants in the trade these days have a trade designation plus a cultivar name. Endless Summer hydrangeas come to mind. However those are generally written correctly with the trade designation followed by the actual cultivar name, e.g. Hydrangea Endless Summer ('Bailmer'). Unfortunately, the way some daylilies are represented is very confusing to purchasers. Dream Souffle should not be written with single quotes if it is only TM.

Edited to add, a patented (not trademarked) cultivar name is legitimate and there 's nothing the AHS can do. The AHS is the official registrar internationally for Hemerocallis and the primary purpose of registration is to avoid duplicate names. Unfortunately the plant patent system runs concurrently and independently, so duplicates happen. The trade designations just add to the confusion because many sellers and buyers do not understand the correct way of writing plant names.
[Last edited by sooby - Jun 15, 2016 1:23 PM (+)]
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Name: Avedon
NE Tex (Zone 8a)
Daylilies Cat Lover Hummingbirder Region: Texas Salvias Bee Lover
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Avedon
Jun 15, 2016 1:31 PM CST
@Ken--frankly, my dear, I think you are right--They don't give a-hoot. About an hour ago I went out and took pictures of our "Red Rover" aka Frankly Scarlet. I also measured the largest flower I could find. Here they are:


Thumb of 2016-06-15/Avedon/c015ff

"Red Rover"---the flower formerly known as Frankly Scarlet--this one measured at 5", but the other are somewhat smaller, at least the ones blooming today.

Thumb of 2016-06-15/Avedon/0cc7e7
"Red Rover" Clumps--these were two divisions of the original plant---in the ground beginning second year and growing like weeds.
Another thing about them is that they are in shade a great deal of the day.


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