Irises forum: Loreley vs Vingolf

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caitlinsgarden
Jul 2, 2016 1:55 PM CST
Does anyone grow both of these? Supposedly they both have PBF but my Vingolf is just green based foliage whereas Loreley has very dark PBF. Does this sound right?
Name: Celia
West Valley City, Utah (Zone 7a)
Pour vivre parmi les fleurs
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Zencat
Jul 2, 2016 2:22 PM CST
Pictures?
Name: Arlyn
Whiteside County, Illinois (Zone 5a)
Irises Beekeeper Region: Illinois Celebrating Gardening: 2015
crowrita1
Jul 2, 2016 3:54 PM CST
I've never seen Vingolf listed as having PBF. It's not on any of the "pbf lists" that I have, and, what I'm growing as "V" doesn't have it, either.
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VINGOLF


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LORELEY usually the blossoms go "wild" on this one, a "pristine bloom is rare, for me , at least
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Name: Bonnie Sojourner
Harris Brake Lake, Arkansas (Zone 7a)
Magnolia zone
Region: United States of America Region: Arkansas Master Gardener: Arkansas Irises Bulbs Seed Starter
Gardens in Buckets Garden Art Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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grannysgarden
Jul 2, 2016 3:56 PM CST
Beautiful irises, Arlyn. It seems like an age since I have seen an iris bloom. LOL
I love my garden.... and Jesus, and coffee, and naps.......
Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA (Zone 6b)
irises
Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United Kingdom Region: Northeast US Irises
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irisarian
Jul 2, 2016 8:36 PM CST
Certainly more white lines on the falls of Loreley.
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
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tveguy3
Jul 3, 2016 4:25 AM CST
Also the standards on Loreley are often more open, looks like Vingolf standards hold together better.
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. - Alexander the Great

caitlinsgarden
Jul 3, 2016 8:18 AM CST
Well, the database here lists them both as having PBF. I wasn't sure which was which as they are somewhat similar in appearance. I did get a new Vingolf last year from superstition, which also has green foliage, so your pics are correct. They are probably siblings, bred by the same (person?)
Name: Celia
West Valley City, Utah (Zone 7a)
Pour vivre parmi les fleurs
Irises Garden Photography I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Butterflies Birds
Cat Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Hummingbirder Plant Identifier
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Zencat
Jul 3, 2016 8:57 AM CST
I just checked the DB and they are from the same hybridizers.
Name: Arlyn
Whiteside County, Illinois (Zone 5a)
Irises Beekeeper Region: Illinois Celebrating Gardening: 2015
crowrita1
Jul 3, 2016 12:00 PM CST
I know this will upset some folks...but, here goes....No database....Cubits, NGA , AIS, HIPS....whatever, is 100% correct....and despite the work of a lot of well intentioned people, never WILL be "100%". So, when I "look" for any information...I look EVERYWHERE ! Then, you have the option of saying to yourself, " Three sources say it IS, and one source says it ISN"T....and asking yourself "who do I believe?" Many of these databases rely on "shared" information, as well as "shared" pictures....so if the "first one " is used as a source for the second....and the first one is in error ? IMHO, there are VERY few iris with a 100% guarantee of being correct....it takes an unbroken chain of "paper trail", as well as having been "well grown, and tended", ever since the time of introduction, and those criteria are pretty rare !
So, bottom line.........read the AIS description (pretty sparse as to detail on the older cultivars), .....understand what the "symbols "mean, and what the "color codes" are telling you, .....read every old catalog description you can find, .....if you can find them, study the old issues of the AIS bulletin (they are online for e members)both for the "informative" articles, and the "varietal comments", and even the advertisements from the various hybridizers,.....study the various vendor's sites, not only to see "what's available", but see what their "provenonce"is for the iris they offer....some, like Superstition, have theirs "checked" by experts in the field of "iris ID"....you will soon be able to find those that, obviously, get their "stock" from another vendor.....the same pictures, descriptions, and often , mistakes will show up in multiple places,.....NEVER assume an ID by pictures alone ! No matter HOW many picture there are !, ....and remember that "mistakes happen , even in the best of families", so, prepare to have the occasional disappointment, prepare to hunt for, trade for, or purchase a LOT of test plants, prepare for a LOT of "library work", and, most importantly, prepare yourself for a long, long, journey, that at the end, is likely to be "futile", as far as a "name" goes, and, even in the "best case " outcome, will only give you with what everyone agrees is "probably" a correct ID. We all need to learn that that old ,purple iris that came from Grandma's place....the one with falls like the ears on a hound dog, is just as pretty, smells just as sweet, and is just as important in the great scheme of things, as a NOID, as it would if it had a "real" name ! So, enjoy the search, never assume anything, prepare to have disappointments along the way, and remember that it's all really supposed to be fun !!

Name: Bonnie Sojourner
Harris Brake Lake, Arkansas (Zone 7a)
Magnolia zone
Region: United States of America Region: Arkansas Master Gardener: Arkansas Irises Bulbs Seed Starter
Gardens in Buckets Garden Art Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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grannysgarden
Jul 3, 2016 12:17 PM CST
Great advice, Arlyn. I have tried to ID only two of my NoIDs as it takes so much time and space not to mention the expense of buying look alikes to grow near my NOIDs. Otherwise I just enjoy them. You are right also about an irises adventures as it travels all over the world. I would like to add that there is also a good chance that the iris one has from moms garden may have been a seedling and has never been given a name.
I love my garden.... and Jesus, and coffee, and naps.......
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Irises Vegetable Grower Butterflies Region: Wisconsin Keeps Horses Cat Lover
Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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tveguy3
Jul 3, 2016 12:51 PM CST
Well said Arlyn. That should be an article at the beginning of this thread as a sticky. How many times have we all repeated similar information through the years. People put up a NOID and we suggest that it MAY be such and such, and then the next thing you know it's been added to the data base as that iris. It's no wonder some of the data bases contain questionable data.
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. - Alexander the Great
Name: Bonnie Sojourner
Harris Brake Lake, Arkansas (Zone 7a)
Magnolia zone
Region: United States of America Region: Arkansas Master Gardener: Arkansas Irises Bulbs Seed Starter
Gardens in Buckets Garden Art Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
grannysgarden
Jul 3, 2016 1:01 PM CST
I have watched that happen too Tom. Sometimes knowing the beard is wrong and the remarks are that it is the wrong color because of differing soils. There is no way you can put two photos side by side and make a positive identification of an iris. That has been stated many times on this forum.
I love my garden.... and Jesus, and coffee, and naps.......
[Last edited by grannysgarden - Jul 3, 2016 2:05 PM (+)]
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Name: Gabriel/Gabe Rivera
Charlotte, NC (Zone 7b)
German imported, Michigan raised
Region: North Carolina Hostas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Dog Lover Garden Procrastinator Daylilies
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Cuzz4short
Jul 6, 2016 8:25 PM CST
Lol, don't look at the daylily database then... Rolling on the floor laughing
Gimme it and I'll grow it!

caitlinsgarden
Jul 8, 2016 4:57 PM CST
Perhaps a question or comment on the database entry would be in order?

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