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Jul 13, 2016 12:16 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sue Taylor
Northumberland, UK
Amaryllis Region: United Kingdom Houseplants Frogs and Toads Foliage Fan I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Container Gardener Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Annuals Bee Lover
I'm always impressed with this large clump of lilies at RHS Harlow Carr. When I visited a couple of days ago they were at their peak.

Can anyone help with an ID?


Thanks
Sue
Last edited by kniphofia Jul 16, 2016 3:15 AM Icon for preview
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Jul 13, 2016 3:57 AM CST
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Beautiful pic. Hope the minds with martagon know-how can help you.
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Jul 13, 2016 5:11 PM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
I've never seen one like that. You might need the help of a UK native liliophile, or a European based forum like the SRGC. I could post there for you with the pic, if you like.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Jul 14, 2016 1:36 PM CST
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
Site w/ plenty of pics:
http://www.lilies.org/martagon...
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
Avatar for lilymanrob
Jul 16, 2016 1:27 AM CST
derby uk.
look like 'claude shride'
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Jul 16, 2016 1:34 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10a)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Region: Australia Cat Lover Bookworm Hybridizer
Orchids Lilies Irises Seed Starter Container Gardener Garden Photography
It does look similar to 'Claude Shride', but I'm not convinced it is. Seems to have more spotting and the pollen looks a bit different.

Other photos from the database for comparison:

Lily (Lilium 'Claude Shride')

Sue, had it been raining before the photo? Can't quite tell if they're wet/covered with droplets or the marks are part of the bloom itself.
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Jul 16, 2016 3:19 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sue Taylor
Northumberland, UK
Amaryllis Region: United Kingdom Houseplants Frogs and Toads Foliage Fan I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Container Gardener Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Annuals Bee Lover
Yes it had rained that morning.

Here's another photo from a previous visit. I have messaged Harlow Carr to see if they have a record of the variety. It looks much more spotted than Claude Shride.

Thumb of 2016-07-16/kniphofia/c7b610
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Jul 16, 2016 7:40 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Tracey
Midwest (Zone 5a)
Garden Photography Tomato Heads Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Pollen collector Forum moderator Hybridizer
Plant Database Moderator Cat Lover I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Seed Starter
I'm not sure on the variety, though it is really nice. Contacting Richard Hyde in the UK or Ramona from Faraway Flowers may get you an answer. Just a thought..
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Jul 16, 2016 8:10 AM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Oh! Thanks for taking a closer look, Joshua! I had interpreted the droplet glinting as speckles, which is an unusual trait for a martagon.

Being from the land where Claude Shride originated (about 70 miles southeast of me), I've seen many. Even in my own garden, they can vary with the number of spots, from sparsely spotted to no spots, and even the light midrib color can appear or not appear from year to year. I certainly don't know what they might display in the UK. I have grown several other cultivars/and of questionable identity that look similar. It's a look that comes up fairly commonly in breeding. All this said, I don't really have an opinion either way, if it is Claude Shride or not. Probably the best way to know, barring info from the Harlow Carr garden itself, would be to compare the growth form of the entire plant, rather than rely so much on the flower.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Jul 16, 2016 10:16 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sue Taylor
Northumberland, UK
Amaryllis Region: United Kingdom Houseplants Frogs and Toads Foliage Fan I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Container Gardener Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Annuals Bee Lover
Here's a wider view of the clump from a 2014 visit.

Many thanks for everyone's input.

Thumb of 2016-07-16/kniphofia/56ba56
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Jul 23, 2016 1:22 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sue Taylor
Northumberland, UK
Amaryllis Region: United Kingdom Houseplants Frogs and Toads Foliage Fan I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Container Gardener Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Annuals Bee Lover
Harlow Carr have just come back with "Martagon" so after doing some more searching around I'm inclined to agree with lilymanrob's suggestion that it is Claude Shride.

Many thanks everyone.
Avatar for lilymanrob
Jul 23, 2016 3:39 AM CST
derby uk.
Australis said:It does look similar to 'Claude Shride', but I'm not convinced it is. Seems to have more spotting and the pollen looks a bit different.

Other photos from the database for comparison:

Lily (Lilium 'Claude Shride')

Sue, had it been raining before the photo? Can't quite tell if they're wet/covered with droplets or the marks are part of the bloom itself.


i see what you mean looking at the database, but mine has very similar spots and was sold by a grower here in the uk as claude shride.
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Jul 23, 2016 6:55 PM CST
Sweden
Forum moderator Garden Photography Irises Bulbs Lilies Bee Lover
Hellebores Deer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2016
It looks like a superb martagon, but perhaps it's not all about the spots as the color of the stigma at least to my eyes doesn't seem to match most other images of 'Claude Shride', either online or indeed as seen in my own garden:
'

I did however find one photo of 'Claude Shride' that looks a little more like the martagon in your image: https://www.blomsbulbs.com/lil...
It's a UK vendor.
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Jul 23, 2016 7:36 PM CST
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis,MN, USA z4b,Dfb/a
Garden Photography The WITWIT Badge Seed Starter Wild Plant Hunter Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
It would seem that if Harlow Carr doesn't know which martagon is planted there, (it could even just be a seedling and not a cultivar at all!), how can you be so sure as to put it in the data base? I had asked that you look at the whole plant. Now that I see the whole plant, it doesn't have the dark stems, the more rigid, sturdy growth, the much higher leaf count per whorl, the more rounded leaves, and the tighter inflorescence structure that Claude Shride has. All this, not even considering the difference in the flower. In my opinion at least, it is not Claude Shride.

What would make you choose Claude Shride over Arabian Knight, for instance? http://www.lilies.org/martagon...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. - Socrates
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Jul 23, 2016 9:53 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sue Taylor
Northumberland, UK
Amaryllis Region: United Kingdom Houseplants Frogs and Toads Foliage Fan I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Container Gardener Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Annuals Bee Lover
OK, don't get you knickers in a twist! You can ask for the contribution to that database entry be deleted.
Avatar for lilymanrob
Jul 24, 2016 1:51 AM CST
derby uk.
heres my claude shride..... or it was sold to me here in the uk as claude shride


Thumb of 2016-07-24/lilymanrob/9f924e
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Jul 24, 2016 3:06 AM CST
Sweden
Forum moderator Garden Photography Irises Bulbs Lilies Bee Lover
Hellebores Deer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2016
That looks very much like my own 'Claude Shride', Rob.

Sue, it's a beautiful photo. A bit tricky with lilium ID sometimes. If you feel uncertain of the ID, perhaps you yourself could suggest a move to a more general database entry?
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Jul 24, 2016 8:24 AM CST
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Bee Lover Lilies Pollen collector Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
William--- Rolling on the floor laughing I never have that problem. My crosses aren't named Green Grin!
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Jul 24, 2016 1:26 PM CST
Sweden
Forum moderator Garden Photography Irises Bulbs Lilies Bee Lover
Hellebores Deer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2016
Lorn, well that is one solution Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!
Love your practical thinking, but actually you have created so many wonderful hybrids and if I may say so, I think that many of them really deserve names.
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