Daylilies forum: Biggest change in a seedling

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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jul 14, 2016 7:03 AM CST
I am always fascinated by seedlings.

I have to remind myself over and over again to wait three years before deciding to keep or cull them. I have learned that you can't judge a seedling by it's first or even second year, because they can change. Sometimes the change is remarkable. I would love to see photos of everyone's seedlings showing any dramatic changes from first year to second and if you have second year to third year, also!

This seedling bloomed for it's 2nd year earlier this season:

ZZZ73 (Laura Mast x Dragonfly Dawn):

2015 All the blooms were double that first year of blooming:
Thumb of 2016-07-14/beckygardener/486fe7

2016 (Bigger bloom with just a hint of doubling):
Thumb of 2016-07-14/beckygardener/ba0cf5

CCC01 (Laughing Clown x Zanti Misfit):

2015 Blooms were smaller and not as rich in color or defined in shape:
Thumb of 2016-07-14/beckygardener/af6a35

2016 Blooms were a deeper saturation of color, more defined, and had a ton of blooms:
Thumb of 2016-07-14/beckygardener/5ef8e8

And this one I thought was so-so. Not one I was particularly interested in. But this year the amount of blooms and it is now sending up a 3rd rebloom scape (much to my utter surprise). It seems to always have blooms, after only resting a short time in between. I believe it might be very close to being an instant rebloom, but I did not keep track of actual dates this year for scapes.

CCC03 (Laughing Clown x Instant Graffiti):

2015: Color nothing special, nor was the form. It did produce 1 rebloom scape, but wasn't anything special in my book. One I was not interested in at all.:
Thumb of 2016-07-14/beckygardener/0866b9

2016: A better defined bloom form. Is producing it's 3 re-bloom scape and seems to have blooms almost constantly except for a short rest period in between. Might be a good bridge plant:
Thumb of 2016-07-14/beckygardener/de5304

I would love to see others on the forum, share seedling photos from one year to the next showing the changes in your seedlings.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Sharon Rose
Grapevine, TX (Zone 8a)
Grace of the Lord Jesus be with all
Daylilies Garden Art Irises Region: Texas Clematis Lilies
Amaryllis Bulbs
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Altheabyanothername
Jul 14, 2016 11:29 AM CST
Becky--very nice! I think their coloring is really coming along. I hope they continue to outperform your expectations. May your gardening endeavors be blessed!
Name: Barbalee
Amarillo, TX (Zone 7a)
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Barbalee
Jul 14, 2016 11:57 AM CST
Altheabyanothername said:Becky--very nice! I think their coloring is really coming along. I hope they continue to outperform your expectations. May your gardening endeavors be blessed!


I agree !!

I hope others can show one year to the next differences. Interesting!
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Jul 14, 2016 1:03 PM CST
That's really interesting. And somewhat worrying for a person who doesn't have so much patient.
But everything in DLs seems slow. That's what I'm learning. It takes patience to see all the potential of a DL, whether it is a young seedling or an adult plant just arrived in the garden. Congrats Becky for your efforts and patience!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Polymerous
Jul 14, 2016 2:05 PM CST
The only change I can report is a negative one (sort of like how your double (first seedling) is going in the opposite direction - from something desirable (mostly or full double) to worse (less double)).

This was a seedling that had maiden bloom in 2015. Iirc (I was swamped and didn't take careful notes) most of the (very few) blooms on the first scape were singles, but then it rebloomed with poly blooms. The bloom did not open flat (let alone recurved), but it did open, and it was a sort of a pale peachy yellow in color.

Thumb of 2016-07-14/Polymerous/e499a0
6-19-2015 bloom

This year this seedling has been a massive disappointment. All (or almost all) of the buds look like they would have produced poly blooms, but almost all of them shriveled up and dropped off! I finally had my first bloom yesterday (I think this was on a third scape in the small clump), and the color was not the same (more yellow, maybe a yellow polychrome, than previously), the bloom was smaller (than I recall), it scarcely opened, AND the pistil was malformed, some anthers were fused, and there was apparently NO POLLEN produced! Blinking (I had the bloom protected from bees so they could not carry off the pollen.)

Thumb of 2016-07-14/Polymerous/b4b9dc (yes, I tried harvesting the anthers... one filament looked like it was stuck to the petal... and I damaged the petals)
7-13-16 bloom

Other than that... I don't have any changelings to report, largely because I don't keep seedlings around for 3 years, and those that I do, mostly look the same. While you may be correct about keeping seedlings around for a few years to see what they can do, I have very limited space for seedlings here. I am mostly trying for polys, and if a seedling shows no hint of producing same (not even one bloom), then out it goes. (If it produces at least one bloom, then I have some evidence that there may be some poly genes in there, and maybe I can bring them out in subsequent generations.) If a seedling color is muddy, out it goes; if a seedling bloom won't open well, out it goes; if the seedling has (too much) rust, out it goes. And so on - with possible exceptions being made for otherwise unusual or interesting or just "something about it that I like" traits.

As an example of a "possible exception"... I have one volunteer seedling that had maiden bloom this season which is showing midrib cresting on some blooms... where the heck did that come from? The bloom size is small and the bloom opens poorly, the cresting is variable from none to a little to all 3 midribs, but maybe it is something I can work with, so it gets to stay for another year.


Thumb of 2016-07-14/Polymerous/641dc2
6-11-16 bloom, evening; GAH! WHAT IS IT?!! Blinking (My first thought was that maybe this was a fused bloom... now I'm not so sure... Confused or maybe it *was* fused, but there is also cresting going on...)


Thumb of 2016-07-14/Polymerous/a82975
6-29-16 bloom, evening, no cresting


Thumb of 2016-07-14/Polymerous/708653
7-13-16 bloom, midrib cresting on all 3 petals
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: Barbalee
Amarillo, TX (Zone 7a)
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Barbalee
Jul 14, 2016 5:15 PM CST
That last one is amazing, Polymerous! I think it deserves to hang on for at least another year (or two)!! Thumbs up
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Polymerous
Jul 14, 2016 6:39 PM CST
Thanks, Barbalee.

I'm going to keep it for at least another year. I don't know what I'm going to do with it, though. The cristate form doesn't happen with every bloom, the blooms are smaller than I like, they are painfully slow to open, and they don't open as well as I like (which is perfectly flat or slightly recurved). And that's all ignoring the budcount and branching and whether or not it reblooms, and the slight (?) susceptibility to rust that it has. (It is ironic that this was one of two seedlings which I had earmarked for destruction prior to bloom, because it got some rust on it. Well, I am Queen of Procrastination, so by the time they were both sending up scapes and I unexpectedly saw some poly buds on the other seedling, I decided to give them both a reprieve for this season. Hilarious! )

I guess a starting point would be to cross it against "bigger and better" cultivars (ones that have bigger flowers and better opening); on the other hand, I should probably look for other cristate daylilies, or else look at their parents... And I should not forget to look for rust resistant mates, too. Glare
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: Barbalee
Amarillo, TX (Zone 7a)
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Barbalee
Jul 14, 2016 7:06 PM CST
Hard choices, Plymerous, but I'm glad you gave grace to those! It could sure get really, really interesting! I tip my hat to you.
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Polymerous
Jul 14, 2016 7:08 PM CST
As in, "May you live in interesting times"? Rolling on the floor laughing
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: Barbalee
Amarillo, TX (Zone 7a)
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Barbalee
Jul 14, 2016 8:00 PM CST
Polymerous said:As in, "May you live in interesting times"? Rolling on the floor laughing


Well, sorta! But those are interestingly fun at least! Rolling on the floor laughing
Name: Ashton & Terry
Jones, OK (Zone 7a)
Windswept Farm & Gardens
Hostas Lilies Hybridizer Keeps Sheep Pollen collector Irises
Hummingbirder Region: United States of America Daylilies Region: Oklahoma Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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kidfishing
Jul 14, 2016 10:10 PM CST
12-230 first bloom
Thumb of 2016-07-15/kidfishing/e67e50
12-230 two years later in 2015
Thumb of 2016-07-15/kidfishing/05f6ca
I liked this seedling x Rose F Kennedy when it first bloomed. Since the first year I really really like it.
It has settled at 38 inches tall and a 6 inch bloom with 5 branches and 30 buds.

12-251 first bloom
Thumb of 2016-07-15/kidfishing/d46ec8
12-251 a year later in 2014
Thumb of 2016-07-15/kidfishing/26323b
This Cat Dancer x Fluid Dynamics did not even catch my attention to recall it in the first bloom season.
Then it looked like the later picture in the next bloom season and I loved it. It has to get established to look similar to the beauty in the second picture. I moved it in 2015 and was not impressed with the blooms. Then this year it is shaping up again. It also has 4 branches and 40 buds. About a 5 inch flower at 30 inches tall. What to do with it? It has made some interesting babies.
Kidfishing
Name: Barbalee
Amarillo, TX (Zone 7a)
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Barbalee
Jul 15, 2016 7:12 AM CST
Good heavens! Those are huge changes, Kidfishing, and give me hope! I tip my hat to you.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jul 15, 2016 8:49 AM CST
I am having such fun seeing the seedling photos from year to year that some of you are posting. This just goes to show that never judge a seedling bloom by the first or even second year. So surprising how some of our seedlings can change so dramatically during those first 3 years!

Polymerous - I had to laugh at your first 2 photos. That poor seedling's blooms from one year to the next look like it was hit with an ugly stick! Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Poor thing! Hilarious! Just curious .... who are it's parents?

Now your last 3 photos really got my attention. I can not believe the normal to amazing cresting that seedling is producing. I would definitely keep that one for further evaluation. The blooms look so unique and lovely! That one may turn out to be worth registering because of how unique it is. You may or may not like it, but I bet there are lots of daylily lovers who would. I think it is such a neat looking bloomer. Definitely worth keeping! Thumbs up

Terry - All I can say is WOW! about both of your seedlings! The change was so dramatic for that last one. Amazing! I love both of your different seedlings. Lovey dubby Lovey dubby Lovey dubby You do reap the reward for planting so many seedlings every year by getting such unique bloomers as those (and many more). It must be a blast to walk out through your daylily beds to see what is blooming for the very first time! I'd get lost out there and would be spending all my time observing, photographing, and taking stats on every one of them ... cause you just never know what they might look like the following year! Thanks for sharing!

I hope more members jump on this thread to post some of their photos!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Polymerous
Jul 15, 2016 2:52 PM CST
Becky, I've decided to keep the sometimes-crested seedling. Char has given me suggestions on what to cross it with, and I have a few ideas of my own. As for the other seedling Rolling my eyes. , see your treemail.
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Birds Cat Lover
Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Vegetable Grower Daylilies Hummingbirder Heucheras
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Hemlady
Jul 16, 2016 5:33 AM CST
Becky, at the moment I can't recall any drastic changes in the flower form of a seedling, just in increased bud count and branching. I will need to think on this a bit longer to see if I had any major bloom changes over 3 years.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jul 16, 2016 7:31 AM CST
Polymerous - Thanks for the tree-mail about parentage. Always interesting to see what breeding creates! I am soooo glad you are keeping that crested one and that Char is helping to point you in the right direction for further breeding! Love that crested seedling! Lovey dubby

Cindy - Lucky You to get seedlings that don't surprise you from one year to the next. The advantage to that is that you know right away what to expect by the third year. So you can keep or cull them sooner. Waiting 3 years means needing more space for growing many seedlings, time and money spent, etc. Which is a real issue for me since I live on a small residential lot. I'd love to be able to cull some after the first year to make room for new seedlings.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Jul 16, 2016 8:58 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1213729 (16)
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Birds Cat Lover
Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Vegetable Grower Daylilies Hummingbirder Heucheras
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Hemlady
Jul 16, 2016 2:34 PM CST
Well Becky, I did find one that did change from last year and I think it looked better last year than this year.

LIGHTHOUSE DIVINE X SKINWALKER 2016

Thumb of 2016-07-16/Hemlady/e67e2c

LIGHTHOUSE DIVINE X SKINWALKER 2014


Thumb of 2016-07-16/Hemlady/f87cb1

I found the 2015 pic of it and it looks the same as the 2016 pic.

Thumb of 2016-07-16/Hemlady/7a8646

Lighthouse Gardens
[Last edited by Hemlady - Jul 16, 2016 2:40 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1214189 (17)
Name: Sharon Rose
Grapevine, TX (Zone 8a)
Grace of the Lord Jesus be with all
Daylilies Garden Art Irises Region: Texas Clematis Lilies
Amaryllis Bulbs
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Altheabyanothername
Jul 16, 2016 3:48 PM CST
Cindy--I think it has always looked good! Hurray!
Many blessings for your continued success!
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Polymerous
Jul 16, 2016 4:09 PM CST
Some amazing color changes there, Kid!

Cindy, I almost have to wonder if your color change was a function of nighttime (previous daytime?) temps... I've seen many daylilies have washed out color after a run of cool weather, and that's what your middle picture makes me think of.
The current avatar image is that of a volunteer daylily seedling showing cristation.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jul 16, 2016 5:16 PM CST
Cindy - Hmmmmm .... I do like the first year blooms more, too! Love the more prominent ruffles and curls in 2014. The bloom's ruffles have kind of flattened out with subsequent years even with the recurve. But all in all, it is still a very pretty bloom. Has the color darkened too, or is the 2014 photo a late day or early morning photo? (If you remember.)
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden

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