Annuals forum: Rudbeckia hirta prairie sun

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John_fender
Jul 24, 2016 8:00 AM CST
Started those from seed 2 years ago, this one is the only survivor, have saved the seeds from it and planted some but the earwigs and slugs are devouring them. Has anybody had any luck with these coming back after more than 2 years ?
This variety seems to grow short for me at 1 ft and a half. Its usually advertized as being 2-3 ft annual.
Thumb of 2016-07-24/John_fender/615a6a

[Last edited by John_fender - Jul 24, 2016 8:21 AM (+)]
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Jul 26, 2016 6:37 AM CST
It's a biennial or short-lived perennial. I have some similar ones of that type of Rudbeckia and usually keep them going from volunteer seedlings. Sometimes a plant will overwinter but unreliably. If you want a truly perennial one try Rudbeckia 'Goldsturm'. Not quite the same type of flower but still very bright. Here's info for the one you have:

http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/PlantFinder/PlantFind...
Name: Karen
Cincinnati, Oh (Zone 6a)
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kqcrna
Jul 27, 2016 7:21 PM CST
I agree.

Prarie Sun is my all-time favorite rudbeckia.

Karen
Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
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gardengus
Jul 27, 2016 7:30 PM CST
I have that plant and it only grows about 12-16 inches for me also .
Not long lived as a perennial but self sows enough to have 2 or 3 in the garden most of the time.
Keep believing ,hoping,and loving
all else is just existing.

John_fender
Jul 29, 2016 1:28 PM CST
I will try to save the seeds and start them as annuals in February next year. They probably take 5 months to bloom from seed. I think I started them 2 years ago outside in May and they bloomed the first year in October just before frost. Last year they came back and looked even better, blooming end of July like this survivor, but this year not so much just the one. So worth it though and I kind of like it on the short side. Here it is again now in full bloom
Thumb of 2016-07-29/John_fender/a24951

[Last edited by John_fender - Jul 29, 2016 1:34 PM (+)]
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Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
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gardengus
Jul 29, 2016 2:12 PM CST
Very cheery Smiling
Keep believing ,hoping,and loving
all else is just existing.
Name: Laurie Basler
Western Washington (Zone 7b)
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lauriebasler
Aug 10, 2016 4:46 PM CST
Never had it around too long, here either.

John_fender
Sep 20, 2016 11:23 PM CST
Update:
Remember I was saying the earwigs were devouring the seedlings of last year's saved prairie sun seeds, well some survived and are now blooming, about 4 months after sowing. I must say I am pleased with the results. Ignore the fact the plants look miserable, we had a very dry summer. I can say some seedlings look like true prairie sun, some look like the original plain yellow rudbeckia hirta, one plant looks like tiger eye rudbeckia with a giant bloom, and one plant look like a denver daisy/autumn colours type of bloom (click on pic to see it at the far right). So much variety!
Thumb of 2016-09-21/John_fender/c2f597

Name: ZenMan
rural Kansas (Zone 5b)
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ZenMan
Sep 21, 2016 7:51 AM CST
Hi John,

I am a zinnia hobbyist, and I dabble at breeding them. There is an interesting looking zinnia in the background of that last picture. It looks like it may be scabiosa flowered, or maybe it is a mutation of some sort,. These are a couple of my "scabious" zinnias.
Thumb of 2016-09-21/ZenMan/64c287 Thumb of 2016-09-21/ZenMan/c7a414
Do you remember where you got your zinnia seeds for those zinnias in your picture?

ZM

John_fender
Sep 22, 2016 5:43 AM CST
Yes those were the whirligigs (stokes seeds) direct sown in june that the earwigs munched on Until August and now made a come back. I found that when flowers started blooming in the garden, the earwigs stopped eating the leaves and were instead eating the pollen which I didn't mind. I took a few pics of that zinnia you mentioned it changed quite a bit in colour and form with time. It looked like a zowie bloom at the start ! What do you think of those changes ?
Thumb of 2016-09-22/John_fender/e44bfc


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Thumb of 2016-09-22/John_fender/f620bb
[Last edited by John_fender - Sep 22, 2016 6:33 AM (+)]
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Name: ZenMan
rural Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
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ZenMan
Sep 22, 2016 12:43 PM CST
John_fender said:I took a few pics of that zinnia you mentioned it changed quite a bit in colour and form with time. It looked like a zowie bloom at the start ! What do you think of those changes ?


Those changes look like natural aging changes to me. It does look something like a Zowie, which is a good thing, because Zowie is an expensive F1 hybrid zinnia.

John_fender said:Yes those were the whirligigs (stokes seeds) direct sown in june that the earwigs munched on Until August and now made a come back. I found that when flowers started blooming in the garden, the earwigs stopped eating the leaves and were instead eating the pollen which I didn't mind.


I really detest earwigs. I quit mulching my zinnias with compost and other organic material because I discovered that the earwigs lived in the organic compost. I now mulch my zinnias with sand to avoid the earwig problem. Earwigs don't like sand. The sand falls in the category of a "dust mulch". Pillbugs also can't stand sand, which is another advantage of the sand.

ZM


John_fender
Sep 22, 2016 1:59 PM CST
Hi again Zenman glad to hear from you again. I would like to try the sand, I prefer to use a deterrent rather than bait. What kind of sand do you buy, is it something I can buy at home depot ? Also have you tried using neem oil ? I read good things about it

John_fender
Sep 22, 2016 3:07 PM CST
Prairie sun descendant, looks better than prairie sun to me !
Thumb of 2016-09-22/John_fender/28e594

Name: ZenMan
rural Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Keeper of Poultry Enjoys or suffers cold winters Bee Lover Dragonflies Garden Photography
Hybridizer Region: United States of America Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 2
ZenMan
Sep 22, 2016 10:12 PM CST
John_fender said:Hi again Zenman glad to hear from you again. I would like to try the sand, I prefer to use a deterrent rather than bait. What kind of sand do you buy, is it something I can buy at home depot ? Also have you tried using neem oil ? I read good things about it


I have not tried neem oil because I currently don't have an insect problem. I ran a bug zapper all Spring and Summer, and it did a good job of killing moths. There are no "good" moths. With no Hawk Moths, we had no tomato horn-worms. Also, no cutworms because they are also the larva of moths. I kept a water trap under the zapper to wipe out the May Beetles and June Bugs, so no grub worms.

The zapper has a place to place Octenol bait to attract mosquitoes, so I got some Octenol for the zapper. It burns mosquitoes up, leaving only remnants of their wings and legs. It is ironic that incinerating the mosquitoes generates carbon dioxide to draw in more mosquitoes. There are supposedly traces of Octenol in human breath, which is why it is used in the bug zapper as mosquito bait. The bug zapper kills a lot of mosquitoes, but not all of them. We have ponds and creeks in all directions and apparently mosquitoes can migrate in from some distance away. But a lot of them get incinerated in an electric spark for their trouble.

For sand in small quantities you can buy children's play sand in bags at Home Depot or other "home" stores. I think the bags weigh 40 pounds each. I started off that way, but now I buy sand a truckload at a time. The truck dumps a big sand pile, which can last me a year or more. I have two large gardens, and I am in the process of sand mulching my smaller South garden at the present time. Incidentally, sand also prevents slugs and snails. They can't navigate in it. And sand is beneficial to earthworms. They ingest sand grains to aid in digestion in their "craws" much the same as birds and chickens use small rocks in their craws.

ZM
central Illinois
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jmorth
Dec 16, 2016 2:09 AM CST
In my experience Hawk Moths , granted, the bane of the tomato, are, to me an exhilarating experience to view and picture. If a caterpitter is found on a tomato I move the offender to the other side of the fence where they consume to their heart's content on a purposely placed tomato plant not intended to harvest.
These Hummingbird Moths can stop in mid air sift 45 degee angles and deposit their collecting porbiscus several iches deep into the recipient honeypot aii the while maintaining position while extracting the nectar,.
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
Name: Karen
Cincinnati, Oh (Zone 6a)
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kqcrna
Dec 16, 2016 6:32 AM CST
Yes, they are cool to watch. I rarely see them in my yard, but I have seen them.

Karen
Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
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stone
Dec 16, 2016 1:05 PM CST
jmorth said:In my experience Hawk Moths , granted, the bane of the tomato, are, to me an exhilarating experience to view and picture. If a caterpitter is found on a tomato I move the offender to the other side of the fence where they consume to their heart's content on a purposely placed tomato plant not intended to harvest.

Yay!
At my house, the tomato moth is happy to eat black nightshade...
Also.... There are a number of different hawk moths at my house all visiting the 4 oclocks and cleome and various other night bloomers. Different moths have different host plants.

Thumb of 2016-12-16/stone/004eef
Tersa moth laying egg on Mexican clover


I can spend hours photographing hawk moths....check these pics:
http://gardens-in-the-sand.blogspot.com/search?q=Hawk+moth
[Last edited by stone - Dec 16, 2016 1:15 PM (+)]
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central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2 Photo Contest Winner: 2014
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jmorth
Dec 16, 2016 4:29 PM CST
Very nice @stone!
I've identified several different ones (sphinx moths) from my garden -

Thumb of 2016-12-16/jmorth/45d029


Thumb of 2016-12-16/jmorth/6f5e64


Thumb of 2016-12-16/jmorth/aa81fd Thumb of 2016-12-16/jmorth/a93907 same I think


Thumb of 2016-12-16/jmorth/5f0f17 from a state park


I think there's another one, but I've not found the picture.
Another large moth I'd never endanger -


Thumb of 2016-12-16/jmorth/4a85e6 - from where I worked before early retirement
also the Luna moth (can't find it's pic either)
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
Name: stone
near Macon Georgia (USA) (Zone 8a)
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stone
Dec 19, 2016 4:05 PM CST
Hmmm.... @jmorth
You forgot to include the names.
I recognize the clear-wing hummingbird moth, which flies in the daylight, and lays eggs on honeysuckle vines....

Thumb of 2016-12-19/stone/208eed
I have lots of pics of those too.

I googled the Pink-spotted Hawk Moth... I get those...

also you have the tersa...

and... is the last one an io moth?
Really doesn't look like one of the hawk moths... I googled the eye spotted moths... couldn't really pin down which you had.
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2 Photo Contest Winner: 2014
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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jmorth
Dec 19, 2016 4:36 PM CST
@stone,
if the pictures are clicked, the names should appear
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.

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