Plant ID forum: help! what is this alien tree?!

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miss_ee
Aug 5, 2016 1:03 PM CST
HI ALL...

Would REALLY appreciate some help with identifying this tree - I have tried MULTIPLE tree ID sites and apps to NO avail - most say it is Ash but I am sure it is not! - It does not seed and is VERY invasive. I have attached multiple photos - the tarpaulined areas have had to be dug as HUNDREDS of new shoots of this tree had grown to approximately 4 foot in 8-12 weeks. To give perspective this tree has grown 30ft in 4 years.


Thumb of 2016-08-05/miss_ee/3cee3d
Thumb of 2016-08-05/miss_ee/b512fc
Thumb of 2016-08-05/miss_ee/07a1f5
Thumb of 2016-08-05/miss_ee/3efc32
Thumb of 2016-08-05/miss_ee/810c3b
Thumb of 2016-08-05/miss_ee/57b0a5
Thumb of 2016-08-05/miss_ee/a9050f
Thumb of 2016-08-05/miss_ee/2797dd

Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
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porkpal
Aug 5, 2016 1:21 PM CST
Where is this tree growing? You say it does not seed; are the new little trees suckers from the roots?
Porkpal

miss_ee
Aug 5, 2016 1:27 PM CST
Hi Porkpal......

If you mean geographically - I am based in the UK, but i'm convinced this is not a native tree. It is in a bed around 100ft from my house and the roots are now spreading under the boundary fence you can see in the photo. The roots are very complex and next door report they cannot dig through them in the bed. Yes the new trees are suckers from the roots and grow immensely fast, they have also begun growing through the lawn and very quickly form strong thick stumps.

Thank you
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Aug 5, 2016 1:41 PM CST
Could it be Tree of Heaven (Ailanthus altissima)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ailanthus_altissima
http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/gbr-treeofheaven/
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Aug 5, 2016 1:47 PM CST
Edited to day: NOT Ailanthus. *Blush* I should have enlarged the thumbnail photos.
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Aug 5, 2016 1:47 PM CST
The leaves appear to be alternate rather than opposite, correct? That would rule out ash. The leaflets are also not opposite on the rachis which may help, as should the leaflet shape (not pointy at the tip in the leaflet shot although look more pointy on the tree). It doesn't match a couple of other suspects either, Ailanthus or black walnut. Does it flower?
[Last edited by sooby - Aug 5, 2016 1:50 PM (+)]
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Aug 5, 2016 2:02 PM CST
How about Ulmus species? This is an image of leaves of Ulmus minor:
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-smooth-elm-ulmus-minor-leaf...
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Aug 5, 2016 2:10 PM CST
Not Ulmus, it doesn't have pinnately compound leaves.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Aug 5, 2016 2:41 PM CST
Could it be Pterocarya fraxinifolia, Caucasian wingnut?

https://www.google.ca/search?q=pterocarya+fraxinifolia+bark&...

miss_ee
Aug 5, 2016 2:44 PM CST
HI All

Your help is much appreciated... To answer your questions - the trees you have named I have already come across and can confirm does not match this nightmare of a tree. The tree does not flower and the leaves appear to both be opposite and alternate depending on the growth of the branch.

I will try to post a few more pictures tomorrow.

THANK YOU

miss_ee
Aug 5, 2016 2:45 PM CST
Hi Sue..

Thanks but I have already investigated that species and can confirm it is not it.... This tree does not seed or bare fruit. Also the leaves are much more matt than those of the Caucasian Wingnut!

Thank you though
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Aug 5, 2016 3:05 PM CST
miss_ee said:Hi Sue..

Thanks but I have already investigated that species and can confirm it is not it.... This tree does not seed or bare fruit. Also the leaves are much more matt than those of the Caucasian Wingnut!

Thank you though


Too bad, it's so close with the brown grey bark and suckering habit. One reference I saw said that Pterocarya fraxinifolia is allogamous in which case it wouldn't produce fruits unless there's another one nearby but if it doesn't flower either (assume it is old enough).....edited to add I found a couple of references to its not flowering in other European locations - still leaves the matt leaves problem though.

[Last edited by sooby - Aug 5, 2016 6:46 PM (+)]
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Aug 5, 2016 4:36 PM CST
I'm just making wild guesses ... how about Sumac (Rhus) species?
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Name: Michelle M. Losey
NE Ohio, USA (Zone 5b)
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WARYR1
Aug 5, 2016 5:09 PM CST
Kinda looks like the locust trees we had. They grew from roots too. BUT our locusts had flowers that hung dwn in spring. My goat loved them
Michelle M. Losey
WARYR1
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Aug 5, 2016 6:41 PM CST
Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) has thorns ... wonder if miss_ee's tree in question is thorned?
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Aug 5, 2016 7:08 PM CST
Miss_ee, can you check if the pith is chambered or not? Some examples here:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=chambered+pith&client=safari&...

miss_ee
Aug 7, 2016 3:59 AM CST
Hi All....

No thorns, grows straight upwards so no wide overhanging branches, solid pith.

Thank you
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Aug 7, 2016 5:19 AM CST
Solid pith rules out Juglans and Pterocarya, not Carya though but so far I'm not seeing any that match. Is it possible to get a reasonably sharp picture of a leaf scar?
Name: Sharon Rose
Grapevine, TX (Zone 8a)
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Altheabyanothername
Aug 11, 2016 8:51 PM CST
Hi Miss_ee Welcome!
@plantladylin Except for the seeds/flower this sure seems like you were right about Tree of Heaven. Penn State Extension lists every problem this tree causes which really seems very close. Sometimes on a very fast growing tree the leaves change even shape and placement branch to branch. Male trees do not produce seeds. Both male and female produce some kind of flower in spring. Pictures on different invasive web sight listings match these pictures better than NGA thumbnail. May everyone be blessed with extraordinary weekend!
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Aug 12, 2016 3:20 AM CST
I'd wondered about Ailanthus too, Sharon, but it doesn't fit. The ID tree has toothed leaflets whereas Tree of Heaven's are smooth except for the large projections at the leaflets' base, see:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=ailanthus+identification+leaf...

If miss_ee or someone she knows is a member of the RHS they would likely be able to identify it if we can't come up with something:

https://www.rhs.org.uk/membership/rhs-gardening-advice/sendi...

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