Lilies forum: Should I be concerned - is this a virus?

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Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Seed Starter
Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography
Australis
Sep 15, 2016 8:04 PM CST
Hi all,

Noticed this the morning on one of my 'Sancerre' bulbs (planted this year) - the photo shows it more than the naked eye:

Thumb of 2016-09-16/Australis/b4a228

It reminded me a lot of the first post in this thread - The thread "Tulip Color Breaking Virus?" in Lilies forum - especially once I noticed that the top didn't look quite as orderly as the others. It is the shorter of two stems from a double-nosed bulb (the taller one is behind it), so I checked the other stem for symptoms.

Edit: Four bulbs in this pot - two 'Corsica' and two 'Sancerre'. The side of the pot away from the camera was two 'Sancerre' (one double-nosed); closest to the camera was two 'Corsica'. I will need to confirm if the left most pair are double-nosed 'Corsica', or a 'Sancerre' and 'Corsica' in close proximity. The tallest pair are definitely the double-nosed 'Sancerre'.
Thumb of 2016-09-16/Australis/0b1685

Having seen this, I checked my other bulbs and found faint patterning on 'Navarra' (also planted this year; behind it is a healthy 'Tresor'):

Thumb of 2016-09-16/Australis/491161 Thumb of 2016-09-16/Australis/01c462

None of these pots have been sitting out in the rain and I've been using Richgro's Beat-a-Bug (Natural Insect Spray) to try to keep insects off them, although I have seen a number of small black insects flying around (no aphids or thrips on the liliums, though - the aphids have been confined to the roses on the opposite side of the house and I have been effectively controlling them with Beat-a-Bug).

At this stage I am planning to isolate the pots (easier said than done, since space is limited), although I strongly suspect 'Sancerre' is showing virus symptoms. Unfortunately both 'Navarra' and 'Sancerre' are white, so colour-blotching may be hard to identify in the blooms!
[Last edited by Australis - Sep 15, 2016 8:58 PM (+)]
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Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
Sep 15, 2016 11:10 PM CST
Always keep a watch, but I don't think you have anything to worry about. They all seem to be growing out of it, and I bet (?) when the suspect leaves were developing you had a cold spell. Do you remember reading this from that thread?

And the "symptoms" in the last two pics are so little that they could have been caused by a myriad of things, even (and most likely) mechanical damage, and least likely of all by virus, in my opinion.
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Seed Starter
Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography
Australis
Sep 15, 2016 11:35 PM CST
Thanks for the advice, Rick. I had forgotten about that entry and was reading through that thread again today - had come across that post again just before your reply to this thread, actually.

'Navarra' I wasn't sure about, since it was so small, so I won't worry about that one.

As for 'Sancerre', I had initially ruled out the weather as nothing else is showing symptoms like that (and 'Sancerre' wasn't the first one to come up), but will go back and check my photos and weather records to see if anything lines up.

I'll still try to isolate 'Sancerre' for the moment, just in case.
[Last edited by Australis - Sep 15, 2016 11:36 PM (+)]
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Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
Sep 16, 2016 3:17 AM CST
It's always wise to be cautious, but different cultivars react differently, and the same ones can be different even under the same weather if other circumstances are variable. On both occasions in that post, Karen North was my only lily to have visible cold damage. Smiling
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Seed Starter
Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography
Australis
Sep 16, 2016 3:37 AM CST
Some additional info on 'Sancerre' - this is what the bulbs looked like the day I planted them (5th August). In the pot, 'Sancerre' is at the top, and 'Corsica' is at the bottom:

Thumb of 2016-09-16/Australis/8ea1b7 Thumb of 2016-09-16/Australis/81545d

The double-nosed bulb emerged first. The first nose emerged on the 19th of August (interestingly this appears to have been the shorter of the two on the bulb when it was planted); the second on the 24th (it is the second that shows the blotching on the leaves).

24th August:
Thumb of 2016-09-16/Australis/fbaa8d

2nd September:
Thumb of 2016-09-16/Australis/6bb1d1

8th September:
Thumb of 2016-09-16/Australis/112115

Looking back at the photos, I can see the distorted top on the shorter 'Sancerre' was noticeable on the 8th and hinted at on the 2nd. Some faint blotching is visible on the taller 'Sancerre' on the 9th.

Regarding weather, here are the August and September minimums for the nearest weather station (in degrees C):

August - http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_display_...
September - http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_display_...

Charts from those pages for reference:
Thumb of 2016-09-16/Australis/d12208 Thumb of 2016-09-16/Australis/3898c5

The only day I can think of that might have caused this was the 24th of August, where you can see a local minimum of around 4 degrees (it was probably cold overnight).

Thoughts?
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Seed Starter
Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography
Australis
Oct 1, 2016 1:41 AM CST
A bit of an update - I isolated the pot about a fortnight ago and sprayed with Richgro Beat-a-Bug once a week to keep aphids and bugs off it, just in case. Today as I was spraying it, I noticed this on the single 'Sancerre' stem:

Thumb of 2016-10-01/Australis/7c76fb Thumb of 2016-10-01/Australis/6f06a9 Thumb of 2016-10-01/Australis/044f2b

The new location for the pot was at higher risk of getting rain, but I thought I had it far enough into the carport to avoid that. The damage I found today makes me wonder if it wasn't (as that stem would have been closest to the edge of the carport) and all the rain we've had in the past week has caused this.

Is this possibly over-watering or botrytis? I'm leaning towards the latter given there's that random spot on one of the upper leaves. I haven't removed these dying leaves yet, but intend to.

Meanwhile, the double-nosed bulb with the leaf markings looked like this a few days ago:

Thumb of 2016-10-01/Australis/9aa995

I assume this is still consistent with cold damage?
[Last edited by Australis - Oct 1, 2016 1:42 AM (+)]
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