Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum: Heuffelii - love 'em or leave 'em?

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Name: Tim Stoehr
Canby, Oregon (Zone 8b)
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tcstoehr
Nov 3, 2016 6:52 PM CST
We all have some Heuffelii's in our gardens... right? What do you think about 'em? Color? Form? Habit?
I'm somewhat new to these but it seems to me they tend to grow into tightly packed spheres requiring invasive surgery to maintain them. Is that really true?
I guess if horizontal space is at a premium, Heuffelii's might make alot of sense.
More maintenance required? What happens if you don't maintain them?
They do seem to have coloration that is limited compared to their semp cousins, but those colors can be striking and unavailable elsewhere. They also seem to have some translucency almost like glassy artwork.
They also sometimes "raise their hands in the air" so to speak which create a very unique and attractive display in one's garden. I think combining this among Sedums would be spectacular.

So... what do you like... or dislike... or just observe... about the Heuffelii crowd?
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
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webesemps
Nov 3, 2016 8:46 PM CST
I'm not usually a fan of them as I don't particularly like Semps that have that mounding habit. That said, I did purchase a few from Mt. Crest for their color after seeing the consistent and eye-catching coloration of 'Apache'.
Yes, it would be worth a try to companion them with Sedum to add a little geometric flavor to the groupings of both.
[Last edited by webesemps - Nov 3, 2016 8:57 PM (+)]
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Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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gg5
Nov 3, 2016 10:14 PM CST
Tim nice to start a thread on this topic. I feel like the heufs are less work than semps. My semps have to have their bottom leaves pulled off at least once a year, usually twice.
I've noticed that with all my different heufs the plant that blooms and dies doesn't effect the overall clump as much as a semp. I usually cut the bloom back on semps but with heufs I leave them, because the clump stays mostly together without the dead space that can happen with a semp that blooms. Also once I got used to the misshapen rosette, I like them! And I've heard they do better in the heat, certainly mine do better in full sun than most of my semps. In this way I can plant a bed that has heufs in the sunniest part and semps in the rest of the spots. I mixed sedum with semps in my very first raised bed of succulents and the sedum completely take over - so I don't recommend it unless you are planning to stay on top of it and prune the sedum as needed. Usually for me what would happen is I'd not pay attention and then I'd find a small scared little semp under the sedum that had gone crazy! Rolling on the floor laughing

Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
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springcolor
Nov 3, 2016 10:44 PM CST
I fell in love with Heuffelii that first visit at Lynn's. Some of her colonies where spectacular and the growth habit was interesting. Weeds don't grow with in the clumps either. I do think that Heuffelii need full sun to come to there full potential in coloration.

I will never grow groundcover sedums and semp/Heuffelii together. Lesson learned, sedum just take over when you turn your back.
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
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valleylynn
Nov 3, 2016 11:54 PM CST

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My very first heuffelii was 'Apache'. I was hooked by the end of the first year. By the third year it had grown into a very large colony. I ended up dividing it that year, and now really regret doing it. It would have been interesting to just let it grow as large as it wanted to. Here it is in June, when the leaves begin elongating for the summer. In the winter it shrinks back by almost half in height.


There are so many wonderful cultivars, from smooth and very glossy, like 'Bros' with it' bright red in the summer.


To fuzzy/velvety with it's two tone brown and soft green.


And what about the chocolate colored heuffs with lovely lime green/cream trim and wonderful cilia that catches the light?


Then there are the heuffs that turn yellow/chartreuse in the spring.


And can't forget the oddball colored ones. I just love them.


And the list goes on. What are you favorites?

I find them to be very tough in both my wet winter weather and they love the heat and drought of summer. What is not to love.
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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gg5
Nov 4, 2016 12:27 AM CST
Lynn wow Clown! Hurray! Hurray!

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
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valleylynn
Nov 4, 2016 8:47 AM CST

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Glad you like it Greg.
Not only does it have interesting coloration, but it is huge. And it is just a one year old plant. I will not be dividing this one, I want to let it grow and see what it does as a mature colony.
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Nov 4, 2016 10:47 AM CST
The heuffs are fast becoming my favorites too. They make the neatest mounds and never need to be dug and divided. Perfect for the lazy gardener. Best of all they seem to look good year-round and almost regardless of the weather.

Although one thinks of them as rather similar I'm getting a large variety of shapes and sizes in the seedlings from squatty forms to upright and some very tiny (1" maximum) to over 6". Colors from gold, pale green, all sorts of red and purple tips to green, full reds, reds edged with green, purples, purples edged with green, brown, and near black. My favorite named cultivar is 'Bros' but it is a stinker of a parent. Really BLAW seedlings! That is the exception though as the seedlings are generally really nice. Virtually any of them would be great garden plants.

My only complaint is that they are the WORST to cross as you have to pull off the the petals in order to do the crosses whereas the true semps can retain their petals and the anthers are easy to remove. With them I generally do controlled self pollinations so I move pollen from one flower to another one where the the stigmas are receptive.

Now if I can get them to the 12" sizes that I'm getting my true semps I'll be even happier. Give me a year or two...

Kevin
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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gg5
Nov 4, 2016 4:15 PM CST
Can't wait to see your young 'uns there Kevin, really glad you are deciding to deal with the hassles of crossing heufs! Very exciting! Hurray!

Name: Tim Stoehr
Canby, Oregon (Zone 8b)
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tcstoehr
Nov 4, 2016 8:03 PM CST
Wow! Strong opinions from experts in the field. Excellent!

Yes... I did notice that blooming didn't create any unsightly craters amongst the clump. Definitely a plus. Thumbs up

Never need to be dug or divided says Kevin. Blinking Is this true? I'd be totally down with that. I don't know how that will work out in my garden but I'm keen to find out.

I seem to recall some talk about rot resistance in the Heuffelii. I have seen no rot so far, nor in the Globiferums.

And thanks, Lynn, for using actual facts and experience as I am sadly lacking. Let's see what I do have in the garden...

'Bros' which seems to perform well for everyone.
Thumb of 2016-11-05/tcstoehr/349b23

'Sundancer' dull at this time of year but still shows it cheeful habit of long, upright leaves.
Thumb of 2016-11-05/tcstoehr/ef5df9

'Beacon Hill' and 'Goldbug'
Thumb of 2016-11-05/tcstoehr/c6e5f0 Thumb of 2016-11-05/tcstoehr/360be4

'Purple Haze' - looking good already although still just a baby
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
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valleylynn
Nov 4, 2016 8:54 PM CST

Moderator

Beautiful representatives of heuffelii you have there Tim. Very nice indeed.
Name: Tim Stoehr
Canby, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Sempervivums Region: Pacific Northwest Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents Sedums
Bee Lover Region: Oregon Dragonflies Keeper of Poultry Cat Lover Composter
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tcstoehr
Nov 5, 2016 12:46 PM CST
I'm hearing some interesting claims about maintenance. Greg says he pulls his dead semp leaves twice a year. Is this a health issue or aesthetic... or both? And do Heufs not need such maintenance?

Also... do you really not ever need to divide the Heufs? My 'Goldbug' pictured above looks ready to explode. And even if it doesn't, the rosettes will continue to multiply and just get smaller and smaller... right? Confused

On a related note... I pulled up part of a semp clump yesterday and found quite a soggy mess of leaves underneath. Not the best situation I thought to myself... but is it really a problem? Confused
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Nov 5, 2016 1:11 PM CST
I never divide my clumps of heuffs as they just get better each year. My c=lump of Bros is three years old and is absolutely perfect. I hope never to divide it.

The only ones I've divided are are ones I'm sharing with someone else but even there I just cut off those pieces or opull them away from the edge of the clump.

However Tim, I am NOT ANAL RETENTIVE like someone else I know who wants his plants to be geometrically perfect. Life is too short AND THEY'RE plants not widgets!

Kevin

Name: Tim Stoehr
Canby, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Sempervivums Region: Pacific Northwest Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents Sedums
Bee Lover Region: Oregon Dragonflies Keeper of Poultry Cat Lover Composter
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tcstoehr
Nov 5, 2016 1:53 PM CST
I'm sure I don't know who you're referring to, Kevin. Angel But you're right, life is too short to put up with asymmetry in the garden. Hilarious!
'Bros' seems to have a more loose habit. Others seem to form into a ball like my 'Goldbug' above. I'm gonna let 'em all go until I see a problem. If they look OK without intervention, I'm good with that.

It seems logical also that the Heufs would not migrate so much either, since all the offsets are coming from a central core mass. This keeps getting better and better.
[Last edited by tcstoehr - Nov 5, 2016 3:52 PM (+)]
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Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Nov 5, 2016 2:26 PM CST
Blame my attitude on my cocktail if antibiotics, anti-virals and pain medicines. Have a nasty case of shingles, including my throat. Worse yet I have to play a concerto this evening!

You are right that the clump shape differs a good bit between clones. Some are looser than others. I am particularly admiring some very flat ones right now. To me that compact clump look is very good.

Kevin
Name: Tim Stoehr
Canby, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Sempervivums Region: Pacific Northwest Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents Sedums
Bee Lover Region: Oregon Dragonflies Keeper of Poultry Cat Lover Composter
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tcstoehr
Nov 6, 2016 12:42 PM CST
springcolor said:I will never grow groundcover sedums and semp/Heuffelii together. Lesson learned, sedum just take over when you turn your back.


I can totally see that with the Spuriums, Tetractinums and others. I hope I'm not in trouble with this innocent little fellow. Angel Oreganum I think. Surely he would pose no problem to that (someday) mighty 'Lion King'.

Thumb of 2016-11-06/tcstoehr/aff495

[Last edited by tcstoehr - Nov 6, 2016 12:44 PM (+)]
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Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Sedums Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 1
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gg5
Nov 6, 2016 3:23 PM CST
Tim don't know about that one, but it is the semp offsets that get lost - small and trying to get into the light, any other plants around can block that growth.
I tip my hat to you.

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Nov 6, 2016 4:39 PM CST

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tcstoehr said:

I can totally see that with the Spuriums, Tetractinums and others. I hope I'm not in trouble with this innocent little fellow. Angel Oreganum I think. Surely he would pose no problem to that (someday) mighty 'Lion King'.

Thumb of 2016-11-06/tcstoehr/aff495



Whistling
Shall I take a photo of my oreganum? Oh wait, I already have one in the NGA database.
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Garden Ideas: Master Level Photo Contest Winner: 2014
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webesemps
Nov 6, 2016 4:41 PM CST
nodding
Name: Tim Stoehr
Canby, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Sempervivums Region: Pacific Northwest Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents Sedums
Bee Lover Region: Oregon Dragonflies Keeper of Poultry Cat Lover Composter
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tcstoehr
Nov 6, 2016 5:13 PM CST
Oh... emm... gee! Please excuse me while I dash out and destroy that Sedum... while I still can.

Although... it doesn't seem to want to crawl up and over and blanket anything. Misplaced optimism perhaps. I have some Cape Blanco in there too, which seems to grow very tamely. Now I suppose Lynn will show me a picture of Cape Blanco swallowing the side of her house. Hilarious!

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