Lilies forum: A new lily in the seedling patch - can you guess the parents?

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Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Dec 23, 2016 5:56 PM CST
I'm very very chuffed to have received an awesome present from the Lily Hybridising Fairies this year and would like to play a game! Would anyone want to take a guess at the parentage? I'd love to hear what your ideas might be about the parentage, based on the appearance of the seedling. I don't really know what I was expecting, but was happily surprised.

Thumb of 2016-12-23/dellac/932f3d
It's a cross between two lilies we know and grow as species.


Thumb of 2016-12-23/dellac/98760d Thumb of 2016-12-23/dellac/c94ece
Thumb of 2016-12-23/dellac/9750f0 Thumb of 2016-12-23/dellac/bd71ee

Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator
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Australis
Dec 23, 2016 6:18 PM CST

Plants Admin

Interesting seedling, Della! I was wondering when we might see photos from you this season.

I'm going to guess that it has L. amabile var. luteum as one of the parents.
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Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Dec 23, 2016 7:37 PM CST
Hi Joshua! I've had too much on my plate to keep up with things, but I hope you like the few pics I probably will post.

Thanks for having a guess, I won't say yay or nay for now - let's leave the mystery open to give anyone else a chance that wants to join in. Smiling

So, discussing features, what are your reasons for choosing amabile var. luteum?



[Last edited by dellac - Dec 23, 2016 7:40 PM (+)]
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Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator
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Australis
Dec 23, 2016 8:00 PM CST

Plants Admin

Thanks, Della.

As for my reasons - primarily it was the form and patterning. It strongly reminded me of amabile var. luteum - a good example of this is Lisa's photo:


My understanding is that orange is more often dominant, so I would be more inclined to think that it would be the yellow var. luteum that was a parent instead of the type.
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The current profile image is that of Iris 'Volcanic Glow'.
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Dec 24, 2016 4:35 AM CST
I like the reasoning. Those stripes would suggest amabile, wouldn't they? Green Grin!
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Dec 24, 2016 5:23 AM CST
Would it help any if I said the hybrid has a lovely fragrance?
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator
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Australis
Dec 24, 2016 5:44 AM CST

Plants Admin

Interesting... lankongense? Wouldn't have picked it for that if it is.
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The current profile image is that of Iris 'Volcanic Glow'.
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Dec 24, 2016 7:58 PM CST
Oooohhh.... wouldn't that be wonderful! But it isn't. I haven't had any success with lankongense yet. Thanks for having a go, Joshua!

I guess I'm not the only one that would be flumoxed if I didn't already know the parentage.

Here they are, mum and dad:

Thumb of 2016-12-25/dellac/186b9c Thumb of 2016-12-25/dellac/4248cd

Lilium leichtlinii (of commerce - not the real thing!) x Lilium cernuum var. album

I'm excited because not only is the seedling delicate as well as striped (wow - where did that come from!?), it has a beautiful fragrance.

I applied cernuum album pollen to dozens and dozens of lilies over 3 years and in that time only harvested two pods with a scant 5-6 viable seeds each. The first progeny were all weak and died in the first year, but from this cross I have three seedlings, another of which will flower in the next day or two.

A very happy Christmas! Smiling







Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator
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Australis
Dec 24, 2016 10:51 PM CST

Plants Admin

That's certainly not what I would have expected! I am very interested to see the other seedlings.

I'm also aware that the leichtlinii available in Australia is likely a hybrid, so never thought of it when you said this was a cross of two species.

The genetics for the stripes probably come from the Leichtlinii Imposter (as I call it). There's also an interesting comment on one of the Pacific Bulb Society lilium pages (http://pacificbulbsociety.org/...) about Darm Crook suspecting cernuum var. album either to be a pumilum variety or hybrid.

Definitely a nice surprise for Christmas.
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The current profile image is that of Iris 'Volcanic Glow'.
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Dec 25, 2016 12:10 AM CST
I know, complicated, isn't it? The naming or identification of both parents is dubious/open to debate, and I wasn't sure how to phrase it for accuracy. The best I could come up with was "two lilies we know and grow as species." but it wasn't clear enough without being a give-away. Hilarious!

If I'm remembering rightly, L. amabile var. luteum was involved in the background of the imposter leichtlinii? I think I read it recently, maybe even here, but my fuzzy memory again. *Blush* Maybe those stripes do ultimately come from amabile? Pardalinum, was it you that posted something? Help!

I'll post the next seedling too when it flowers. Smiling
Sweden
Bulbs Lilies Bee Lover Irises Hellebores Deer
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William
Dec 25, 2016 6:43 AM CST
It's a lovely seedling Della. Let's hope it will be both floriferous and strong!
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
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pardalinum
Dec 25, 2016 10:52 AM CST

Moderator

Della, I don't recall knowing anything about an imposter leichtlinii. Seems like the 'Citronella' on the market today is thought to be L. leichtlinii.

If I had posted my guess it would have been L. leichtlinii simply because I know you grow it, imposter or not.
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis, MN, USA zone 4
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
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Leftwood
Dec 25, 2016 8:36 PM CST
I never would have guessed that, either. My worst problem was trying to figure out where those nice reverse colors were coming from.

L. cernuum has some really interesting genes. I'll be Tinos has L. cernuum in its background, too.
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Dec 26, 2016 6:47 AM CST
mmhm, Rick, the reverse is pretty nice!

Aah - thanks Connie! That's what I was thinking of. Only I took it to mean that the leitchlinii of commerce is a selection of 'Citronella', which I thought in turn had amabile var. luteum in it's background. That's the reason I was thinking of the leitchlinii I have as an imposter - I didn't think it was the real species. I have a selection of the wild leicthlinii now, known as Iwashimizu, and it's a very different lily from the commercial one.

The commercial leitchlinii is really dominant in all the other crosses I've used it in - getting exasperated here with all the new look-alikes I've produced. Hilarious! I'll have to wait a couple of years to see how different the grandkids might be!

Anyway, I was hoping those "interesting genes" of cernuum var. album might shake staid old leichtlinii up a bit, I just didn't know what to expect! Here's the second seedling:

Thumb of 2016-12-26/dellac/b43ad8 Thumb of 2016-12-26/dellac/88564d

Surprise!

It's scented too, but only faintly and while it's not unpleasant, I wouldn't call it delightful!

Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Tomato Heads Pollen collector Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Cat Lover
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magnolialover
Dec 26, 2016 7:04 AM CST

Moderator

Your seedlings are really nice della. I am liking the patterns in the flowers.
Tracey
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Dec 26, 2016 7:07 AM CST
Thanks Tracey. :)
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
Dec 26, 2016 1:27 PM CST

Moderator

The Citronellas in commerce are the imposters (fake Citronellas), not the original selections from the Fiesta Group by Jan de Graaff.

Several years back B&D Lilies was selling what they said were bulbs from the original Citronella Group. They indeed looked different, having tiny black spots as described in the Lily Register. The price as I recall was quite dear but I still kick myself for not ordering one or two of them. The parentage of the Fiesta Group is described as being from amabile, dauricum & davidii.
Name: Rick R.
Minneapolis, MN, USA zone 4
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
Seed Starter Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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Leftwood
Dec 26, 2016 3:53 PM CST
Della, that last "surprise" is quite exquisite. Almost bordering on tango but with no tango parentage, or Ll. duchartrei or lankongense. Breeders are moving toward a down or outfacing tango, maybe you can beat them to it by crossing it with a tango....

The commercial leitchlinii is really dominant in all the other crosses I've used it in

Maybe try it with something with L. maculatum in the background. Most hybrids that have wide(for an asiatic), shiny green leaves get that characteristic from maculatum.
These are the F1 generation of L. leichtlinii x L. maculatum var. wilsonii
Thumb of 2016-12-26/Leftwood/41872c

Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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dellac
Dec 28, 2016 2:31 AM CST
Oh, those have nice height and proportions, Rick! I prefer narrow foliage in asiatics rather than wide - when I see wide, glossy foliage I tend to think the 'asiatic' is an LA! - but I can see the foliage in your seedlings is beautiful. I'll keep that in mind. Thumbs up

And I have a few thoughts on possible crosses with the speckly hybrid. nodding

Thanks Connie for clarifying. It would be nice the have the original Citronella. I have quite few yellow 1c seedlings with tiny spots, I like their colour and form. Will have to see if there are any blooms left to cross with so I can send you some seeds. Not the real thing but could produce something similar!
Name: Paul
Nullawarre, Victoria,Australia (Zone 10b)
Region: Australia
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vanozzi
Dec 28, 2016 6:12 AM CST
G'day Della, that last seedling is a cracker too. How tall is it.

I thought you already had down and out facing tangoes, not in the dense pattern but the ''spreckles ''pattern?

Here is my latest down-facing tango (heavy) spreckle pattern seedling.7 blooms to a stem and about 1.5 metres tall, fully recurved, but I'm not sure about its fertility.Will know shortly.
Thumb of 2016-12-28/vanozzi/9e765a

Different latitudes, different attitudes

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