Plant ID forum: What is this curly tree? {pics}

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jonnyc55
Jan 6, 2017 9:49 AM CST
Ok so this tree has seed features of lime trees (or Linden trees) but it has curly branches. So i am stuck here because limes don't have curly branches?

The pictures have good definition and high resolution so you can zoom in.



The tree also appears to have little tree off-shoots at its base (suckering). I have a picture of this if you need it.

Thanks for your time.

Thumb of 2017-01-06/jonnyc55/d83c51




Thumb of 2017-01-06/jonnyc55/aa8bdf

Seeds:




Thumb of 2017-01-06/jonnyc55/b83049




Shoots:

Thumb of 2017-01-06/jonnyc55/c2dd4b

Trunk:




Thumb of 2017-01-06/jonnyc55/1a2d55


Seed structure:

Thumb of 2017-01-06/jonnyc55/d005e7

Tree as a whole:




Thumb of 2017-01-06/jonnyc55/af8808

Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
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porkpal
Jan 6, 2017 10:12 AM CST
Where is this tree growing?
Porkpal
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Jan 6, 2017 10:30 AM CST
There is a lime/linden with curly branches, Tilia platyphyllos 'Tortuosa'. I don't know how likely it is to be growing wherever you are located but here are some pictures from Google, we don't have any in the NGA database:

https://www.google.ca/search?q...

jonnyc55
Jan 6, 2017 10:59 AM CST
@porkpal

It is growing in sandy soil up (since there is sandy mud banks near that picture) north near Manchester (UK)so it should have clay mixed in to.

@sooby
awesome thanks! I wouldn't of found that. I am glad i have the name so i can start growing them from seed. I have never seen one before.
It isn't in the databse? haha, it needs adding :D.

On your link i am seeing curly trees, the leafs match up, as do the seeds. Nice find Sooby :D.

Also according to wikipedia:
'Tortuosa' (twisted branches) is a Cultivar of Tilia platyphyllos and there is many more cultivar's of the Tilia platyphyllos. So i have found the twisted branch cultivar of the Tilia Platyphyllos :D, growing near a abandoned farm barn.

("Tilia platyphyllos is widely planted throughout the temperate world as an ornamental tree in parks and city streets. Numerous cultivars are available, including 'Aurea', (golden leafed), 'Fastigiata', 'Laciniata' (seemingly torn leaves), 'Örebro' (columnar), 'Princes Street' (narrow crown), 'Rubra' (red twigged), 'Tortuosa' (twisted branches), and 'Tiltstone Filigree' (upswept branches).

"The cultivar 'Tortousa', discovered as a sport in Chiswick in 1888,"

Interesting stuff.



Do you reckon thats the right tree then? Regarding the leaf. It looks right to me.

Yeah i live in North West of the UK (typically clay soil in these parts) but where this tree is, there is a sandy mixture mixed in with the clay. So i wonder if its rare up here?

Where would you typically find the Tilia platyphyllos 'Tortuosa'?

Can i germinate the seed in its hard casing? or do i have to open it up? Or is that picture of the seed, the seed itself and not a casing?

Thank you.
[Last edited by jonnyc55 - Jan 6, 2017 11:19 AM (+)]
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Jan 6, 2017 11:19 AM CST
There's a nursery/botanical garden that advertises 'Tortuosa' in Derbyshire which is not all that far - according to Wikipedia Tilia platyphyllos is native to Europe including the SW UK, but someone would likely have planted the cultivar 'Tortuosa' where you are. I would say it is definitely a Tilia (Linden) but check out this Tilia ID article and see what you think:

http://www.malvaceae.info/Gene...

I don't know how or where the cultivar 'Tortuosa' originated. Yours doesn't look quite as curly as some of the pictures of it on Google but maybe it isn't always as pronounced in a larger tree - or maybe it is a hybrid with 'Tortuosa' as a parent.

jonnyc55
Jan 6, 2017 11:21 AM CST
sooby said:There's a nursery/botanical garden that advertises 'Tortuosa' in Derbyshire which is not all that far - according to Wikipedia Tilia platyphyllos is native to Europe including the SW UK, but someone would likely have planted the cultivar 'Tortuosa' where you are. I would say it is definitely a Tilia (Linden) but check out this Tilia ID article and see what you think:


I don't know how or where the cultivar 'Tortuosa' originated. Yours doesn't look quite as curly as some of the pictures of it on Google but maybe it isn't always as pronounced in a larger tree - or maybe it is a hybrid with 'Tortuosa' as a parent.


""The cultivar 'Tortousa', discovered as a sport in Chiswick in 1888,"" I found on web.
:D

The farmer could of got his curly lime tree from Derbyshire then.

Only thing am unsure of is its size, they say 12-18m but this tree looks more? Like you said, it could have hybrid qualities, as also the curls aren't all that extreme compared to google images of its type.

Ok i check out your link, thanks Sooby!

[Last edited by jonnyc55 - Jan 6, 2017 11:26 AM (+)]
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Name: Mary
Lake Stevens, WA (Zone 8a)
Near Seattle
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Pistil
Jan 6, 2017 12:49 PM CST
Most "tortuous" cultivars originated as a "sport" which is a genetic mutation that happened in one branch of a tree. In most cases, the seeds do not carry the mutation, and those cultivars (short for CUL tivated VARiety) are grown by grafting. Thus every one you see is really a clone of that sport of "Cheswick" and is 127 years old!
If the suckers seem nice and straight and not like the twisted branches you can assume this was a grafted specimen, and the suckers are from the normal rootstock and not twisted. In this case you should buy one already grafted if you really want one for a specific location. You can try growing it from seed but it probably will not show the twistiness you like, and it will take several years to know. Fun project though!

jonnyc55
Jan 6, 2017 1:03 PM CST
Pistil said:Most "tortuous" cultivars originated as a "sport" which is a genetic mutation that happened in one branch of a tree. In most cases, the seeds do not carry the mutation, and those cultivars (short for CUL tivated VARiety) are grown by grafting. Thus every one you see is really a clone of that sport of "Cheswick" and is 127 years old!
If the suckers seem nice and straight and not like the twisted branches you can assume this was a grafted specimen, and the suckers are from the normal rootstock and not twisted. In this case you should buy one already grafted if you really want one for a specific location. You can try growing it from seed but it probably will not show the twistiness you like, and it will take several years to know. Fun project though!


Thanks for the information. Very interesting.

I believe the suckers were straight.

I shall try growing from seed, i need some lime trees anyway :D. But if it curls then thats a big bonus. But as you said, its rare for it to carry the mutation.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Jan 6, 2017 1:20 PM CST
According to the article in this link, it originated as a single tree in a bed of 500 Tilia platyphyllos in the RHS garden at Chiswick (before they moved to Wisley), which kind of sounds like it was from seed and not a branch sport on a "regular" tree:

https://archive.org/stream/tre...
Name: Mary
Lake Stevens, WA (Zone 8a)
Near Seattle
Bookworm Garden Photography Plant and/or Seed Trader Plays in the sandbox Region: Pacific Northwest Seed Starter
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Pistil
Jan 7, 2017 7:20 AM CST
What fun-maybe it is transmissible!
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
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ViburnumValley
Jan 7, 2017 2:11 PM CST
Take a look at Tilia petiolaris (syn. Tilia tomentosa 'Petiolaris'). This is a pendant to weeping plant - not a tortuous one like you are discussing in this thread.
John

jonnyc55
Jan 10, 2017 10:29 AM CST
sooby said:According to the article in this link, it originated as a single tree in a bed of 500 Tilia platyphyllos in the RHS garden at Chiswick (before they moved to Wisley), which kind of sounds like it was from seed and not a branch sport on a "regular" tree:




Oh thats promising and 500 trees! wow.

Pistil said:What fun-maybe it is transmissible!


Hopefully :D. It would be nice having a curly tree in my garden.

ViburnumValley said:Take a look at Tilia petiolaris (syn. Tilia tomentosa 'Petiolaris'). This is a pendant to weeping plant - not a tortuous one like you are discussing in this thread.


I shall do, thanks Viburnum.


jonnyc55
Jan 10, 2017 10:37 AM CST
ViburnumValley said:Take a look at Tilia petiolaris (syn. Tilia tomentosa 'Petiolaris'). This is a pendant to weeping plant - not a tortuous one like you are discussing in this thread.



Thumb of 2017-01-10/jonnyc55/b8fe31

This tree you mention is a mirror of the tree in my original post during summer. With its blotches of leave clusters and open gaps.

This could be more it to be honest.

Problem is there aren't any summer shots of a mature tree that Scooby mentions (Tilia platyphyllos 'Tortuosa'. ).

A seller of the Tilia platphyllos tortuosa mention this in the description of the tree:

"An unusual tree to say the least, with twisted and contorted young branches best seen close up or in winter to get the full effect; otherwise a neat and tidy shade tree with an attractive pyramidal habit of growth, worth seeking out"

On the sale page of this tree there is this image (supposedly the Tilia platphyllos tortuosa):


Thumb of 2017-01-10/jonnyc55/cd4cfe

Now, if the Tilia platyphyllos 'Tortuosa' truly is pyramidal and neat and this picture (above) is accurate of the Tilia platyphyllos 'Tortuosa' even in later maturity then it can't be it. It is more scraggly like the Tilia petiolaris in the summer, the first picture in this post is a mirror look a like of the tree in my pictures in the original post of the thread during summer.

Source of the seller of the Tilia platyphyllos 'Tortuosa' :::: plants.gardensupplyco. com/12190003/Plant/4154/Contorted_Linden

(i cant add proper links because am a new member)

[Last edited by jonnyc55 - Jan 10, 2017 10:48 AM (+)]
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