Plant Database forum: Adding a cultivar of Cattleya intermedia to the database

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Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
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drdawg
Jan 6, 2017 11:08 AM CST
I want to post C. intermedia 'Coerulea' to our data-base.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
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I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Karen
NM (Zone 7b)
Region: New Mexico Region: Arizona Cactus and Succulents Greenhouse Sempervivums Bromeliad
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plantmanager
Jan 6, 2017 1:40 PM CST
Maybe it's this one, Ken?
Bromeliad (Puya coerulea var. intermedia)
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Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Tropical Plants & More
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
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drdawg
Jan 6, 2017 1:44 PM CST
No, this is an orchid, a Cattleya.

Thumb of 2017-01-06/drdawg/4e5107 Thumb of 2017-01-06/drdawg/0e16f9

drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Karen
NM (Zone 7b)
Region: New Mexico Region: Arizona Cactus and Succulents Greenhouse Sempervivums Bromeliad
Adeniums Garden Ideas: Level 1 Tropicals Xeriscape Garden Art Plumerias
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plantmanager
Jan 6, 2017 1:58 PM CST
Ah, sorry. I didn't know, but just did a database base search.
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Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Jan 6, 2017 1:58 PM CST
I see Orchid (Cattleya intermedia)

I don't think 'Coerulea' is an actual cultivar name? I googled and found this American Orchid Society page http://www.aos.org/orchids/col... that gives the description of C. intermedia var. coerulea, soft bluish flowers with slate blue midlobe.
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


[Last edited by plantladylin - Jan 6, 2017 2:00 PM (+)]
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Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Jan 6, 2017 2:04 PM CST
Found this cultivar ('Nana') of C. intermedia var. coerulea: http://www.sborchid.com/plantd...

and there's another one with the name of C. intermedia var. orlata so I'm assuming the name coerulea is a variety of Catt rather than a cultivar?

Boy are Orchids confusing! Confused
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Jan 6, 2017 2:21 PM CST

Plants Admin

I think @Australis can answer your orchid questions.
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Tropical Plants & More
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
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drdawg
Jan 6, 2017 2:58 PM CST
I looked back for the original label and the label is C. intermedia var. coerulea 'Celeste' HCC/AOS.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Jan 6, 2017 3:03 PM CST
Glad you found the label Ken! I don't see Cattleya 'Celeste' in our database so hopefully it will soon be added.
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Jan 6, 2017 3:07 PM CST
Sure is a beauty!

http://www.sunsetvalleyorchids...
https://lab.troymeyers.com/fla...
http://sarasotaorchidsociety.o...
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Tropical Plants & More
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
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drdawg
Jan 6, 2017 3:15 PM CST
Sometimes I get lazy and shorten the name, particularly on orchids I don't list for sale. I always keep the original label (just in case).
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
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Australis
Jan 6, 2017 5:40 PM CST

Plants Admin

drdawg said:I looked back for the original label and the label is C. intermedia var. coerulea 'Celeste' HCC/AOS.


Hi Ken,

I've done a bit of checking and var. coerulea is apparently not a recognised variety/subspecies of C. intermedia. I've added it simply as a cultivar of C. intermedia:

Orchid (Cattleya intermedia 'Celeste')
Plant Authorities: Catalogue of Life (Species) --- International Cultivar Registration Authorities (Cultivars) --- RHS Orchid Register --- RHS Lilium Register
My Notes: Orchid Genera HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Traits HTML PDF --- Lilium Species Crosses HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Species Diagram
The current profile image is that of Iris 'Volcanic Glow'.
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Tropical Plants & More
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
Image
drdawg
Jan 6, 2017 9:21 PM CST
Interesting, Joshua. The AOS recognizes the exact name I entered.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator
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Australis
Jan 6, 2017 10:13 PM CST

Plants Admin

Interesting. This site uses the Catalogue of Life as its reference for the database, so I checked against that and it's not a recognised variety.

From experience, I know that a lot of varieties of certain Lilium species (i.e. Lilium martagon) aren't officially recognised either, but are still in use by Lilium growers and groups. I assume the same applies to the Orchid genera.
Plant Authorities: Catalogue of Life (Species) --- International Cultivar Registration Authorities (Cultivars) --- RHS Orchid Register --- RHS Lilium Register
My Notes: Orchid Genera HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Traits HTML PDF --- Lilium Species Crosses HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Species Diagram
The current profile image is that of Iris 'Volcanic Glow'.
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Tropical Plants & More
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
Image
drdawg
Jan 7, 2017 6:55 AM CST
Interesting, Joshua. The AOS recognizes the exact name I entered.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Tropical Plants & More
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
Image
drdawg
Jan 7, 2017 6:59 AM CST
There is something here that says to me we are not on the same page. This is an orchid plant and is the Cattleya intermedia var. coerulea. It was awarded the HCC by the AOS on 3/19/2008, and the award number is 20087525. It was further named 'Celeste' when awarded. One can easily look this awarded plant up in the AOS data-bank.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Tropical Plants & More
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
Image
drdawg
Jan 7, 2017 12:00 PM CST
C. intermedia var. coerulea 'Celeste' HCC/AOS.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator
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Australis
Jan 7, 2017 4:56 PM CST

Plants Admin

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the additional info. The problem is that C. intermedia var. coerulea is not an accepted variety/subspecies by the sources that the Catalogue of Life (CoL) uses, regardless of whether it's recognised by the AOS or not. As far as the CoL is concerned, it's just C. intermedia:

http://www.catalogueoflife.org...

KEW is the source for the entries for the Cattleya genus (and many others):

http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/

Unfortunately they don't even recognise C. intermedia var. coerulea as a synonym.

I also can't seem to get onto the AOS website at the moment to check what it says.

Kind Regards,
Joshua.
Plant Authorities: Catalogue of Life (Species) --- International Cultivar Registration Authorities (Cultivars) --- RHS Orchid Register --- RHS Lilium Register
My Notes: Orchid Genera HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Traits HTML PDF --- Lilium Species Crosses HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Species Diagram
The current profile image is that of Iris 'Volcanic Glow'.
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Tropical Plants & More
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
Image
drdawg
Jan 7, 2017 5:19 PM CST
Call me stupid, Joshua, but I have never even heard of the CoL or KEW. The "Bible" for orchid cataloging, research, and awarding is the AOS and the RHS. As far as I know, there is no higher authority when it comes to orchids than those two organizations.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator
Image
Australis
Jan 7, 2017 7:13 PM CST

Plants Admin

I wasn't familiar with the CoL or KEW until I started talking to the admins about the database, either. I'll have a chat with them regarding this entry and get back to you.
Plant Authorities: Catalogue of Life (Species) --- International Cultivar Registration Authorities (Cultivars) --- RHS Orchid Register --- RHS Lilium Register
My Notes: Orchid Genera HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Traits HTML PDF --- Lilium Species Crosses HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Species Diagram
The current profile image is that of Iris 'Volcanic Glow'.

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