Plant ID forum: I.D. for new agave and a cactus.

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Name: Agavegirl1
South Sonoran Desert (Zone 9b)
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AgaveGirl1
Feb 9, 2017 9:21 AM CST
I bought this cute cream puff of a cactus. I have no clue what it is, how large it will get and what care it needs in regards to light, heat tolerance, water, etc.

Also my neighbor gave me a bunch of these agaves. Hers have done well in both full intense sun as well as partially shaded. What is this plant and how do you care for it?

Description based on my personal (painful) interaction with it:
Thin, dry leaves in texture, does not seem to grow bigger than this (based on my neighbor's plant and age of it.). It has tiny but vicious lateral spines that draw blood upon contact and can penetrate leather gloves. Turns brown and dead looking in the sun. Dump water on it and it turns very green and healthy again. Appears to respond well to regular watering.

Thanks for the help.
AG


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Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
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Calif_Sue
Feb 9, 2017 10:20 AM CST

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Moved to Plant ID forum.
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Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Feb 9, 2017 10:33 AM CST
Your "agave" looks like my red Yucca - Hesperaloe parviflora

The cactus is Old Man of the Mountain - Oreocereus trollii. I had them outside in my garden in zone 8. My biggest was about 30 inches tall .
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Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Roses Irises Clematis
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Calif_Sue
Feb 9, 2017 10:35 AM CST

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Red Yucca (Hesperaloe parviflora)
Old Man of the Mountain (Oreocereus trollii)
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Name: Agavegirl1
South Sonoran Desert (Zone 9b)
Cactus and Succulents Bookworm Xeriscape Hummingbirder Butterflies Bee Lover
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AgaveGirl1
Feb 9, 2017 11:07 AM CST
Thank you for I.D. of the Old Man of the Mountain cactus. I can now look up the particulars on this plant. Thanks Thumbs up

I do have Aloe hesperaloe/Red Yucca in my front yard presently. Prior residence I had them for 8 years. I don't think this ID is correct. Is the plant I acquired a possible sub species or hybrid of the A. Hesperaloe?

The plant I acquired is at least a minimum of 12 years old as my neighbor has resided here 15 years. The plant has not changed size or ever produced flowers. It does pup aggressively. Does that help?

BTW, went to Plant ID forum. clicked on my question. Jumped to the end. Says do not post a question here. Start a new thread. D'Oh! Did I do something wrong when I posted this question here?

I typed in Plant ID forum. It came up and provided a list of forums. Cactus and Tender Succulent is where I presently am participating. When I ask for I.D.s they say go to Plant ID forum. How do I navigate this and post my questions in the proper place?
To boldly grow where no man has lawn before.
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Roses Irises Clematis
Garden Photography Keeper of Poultry Hummingbirder Bee Lover Butterflies Houseplants
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Calif_Sue
Feb 9, 2017 11:18 AM CST

Moderator

Read it again: "Do not post a new question here! This thread is only for answering AgaveGirl1's original question. If you have a question of your own, start a new thread here."

That's for other members that come along, it's telling them to start a new thread to get their questions answered rather than tag on to your thread.
For a list of all the forums, click the 'Community' link at the top. All navigation can be found in that top bar with it's various links.

Aloe hesperaloe and Hesperaloe parviflora are two different plants.
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[Last edited by Calif_Sue - Feb 9, 2017 11:20 AM (+)]
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Name: Agavegirl1
South Sonoran Desert (Zone 9b)
Cactus and Succulents Bookworm Xeriscape Hummingbirder Butterflies Bee Lover
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AgaveGirl1
Feb 9, 2017 12:03 PM CST
Oh...my bad. *Blush* I should have read closer. Sorry. I will check on the
Hesperaloe parviflora. That is probably it.
Thanks for the help and time.
Much appreciated. Thumbs up
To boldly grow where no man has lawn before.
Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Feb 9, 2017 12:19 PM CST
The first one looks like Hesperaloe parviflora to me too.

Is there a plant named Aloe hesperaloe? I typed that name into the database search box and got no results. It came back showing all Hesperaloes: https://garden.org/plants/sear...
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


Name: Agavegirl1
South Sonoran Desert (Zone 9b)
Cactus and Succulents Bookworm Xeriscape Hummingbirder Butterflies Bee Lover
Critters Allowed Enjoys or suffers hot summers Dog Lover Garden Photography Region: Southwest Gardening Container Gardener
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AgaveGirl1
Feb 9, 2017 1:02 PM CST
Yeah....our AZ famous mislabeled Aloe Hesperaloe. It has been erroneously called common name of Red Yucca. If I remember awhile back one of the more knowledgeable advance plant people like yourselves had told me that the real, true Red Yucca is neither red nor a Yucca. It is Aloe Hesperaloe and the flowers are yellow. Confused Shrug!

A confusion much like the way people here call the Caesalpinia pulcherrima a Mexican Bird of Paradise.

The C. pulcherrima is the one with the flashy orange-yellow flowers and becomes a bush/tree that tops out at 12-15' and strongly resembles the true MX Bird of Paradise. This C. pulcherrima/ :"Mexican Bird of Paradise is not from MX or one of their indigenous plants. If it is there, it was introduced.

The real the real, true MX 'Bird of Paradise' has different shaped leaves, only solid yellow flowers, is native to MX and grows tree like up to 15'-18'. They can/do reside here but are not indigenous to our area.

The confusion comes because the two are so similar until you get into the fine details and minutia.

Now here's what is being called a Red Yucca and labeled as Aloe hesperaloe in the BB stores and even some nurseries out here. This one is tall and grows taller---several feet. It also has no lateral spine.
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I dunno. I'm at a loss on the finer points. The only reason I'm kind of leaning towards that one plant not being the above, so called 'Red Yucca' is that the plant I received and the one above don't share much in common.

The one I received is 12 years old as confirmed by neighbor who has lived in the house 15 years. It has NEVER produced a flower, NEVER grown bigger/taller past the 6"- 8" it presently is, and has a vicious lateral spine that draws blood and can penetrate leather gloves. Glare I've lived next to my neighbor for 2 years so I can confirm these traits about it.

It is definitely in the Hesperaloe group. Lots of similarities. Just puzzled as to what type since there are so many differences as well.
To boldly grow where no man has lawn before.
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Feb 9, 2017 3:09 PM CST
Hesperaloe parviflora 'Perpa' is a dwarf Hespaealoe. Brakelights is a patented name from Monrovia Nursery, and it is red. Same care as any that takes full sun in zones 5 to 10. Basics off the tag that came with mine.
Name: Agavegirl1
South Sonoran Desert (Zone 9b)
Cactus and Succulents Bookworm Xeriscape Hummingbirder Butterflies Bee Lover
Critters Allowed Enjoys or suffers hot summers Dog Lover Garden Photography Region: Southwest Gardening Container Gardener
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AgaveGirl1
Feb 9, 2017 3:34 PM CST
Hi Carol.

Yep...plant is about the right size BUT as I mentioned there are 2 things that are not adding up. I'm beginning to think we are barking up the wrong Hesperaloe tree and maybe should be checking agaves.

It shares these traits in common with agaves.

1.) Many agaves will not bloom for decades and when they do it signals the end of their life. This plant has never flowered in 12 years. It has never, flowered. At 12 years old, It does not appear it will do so real soon.

2.) It has a vicious lateral spine that draws blood and can pierce through leather. Vicious lateral spines is another wonderful common agave trait. Hesperaloe seems to be void of this.

Let me check in with the Tucson Cactus and Succulent Society and U of AZ to see if they have something similar or can help identify.
To boldly grow where no man has lawn before.
Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Feb 9, 2017 4:25 PM CST
Hedgehog Agave (Agave stricta) has narrow leaves:
Another photo here: http://www.onlineplantguide.co... and at the Agave Page: http://succulent-plant.com/fam... there may be more with narrow leaves.
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


Name: Agavegirl1
South Sonoran Desert (Zone 9b)
Cactus and Succulents Bookworm Xeriscape Hummingbirder Butterflies Bee Lover
Critters Allowed Enjoys or suffers hot summers Dog Lover Garden Photography Region: Southwest Gardening Container Gardener
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AgaveGirl1
Feb 9, 2017 5:11 PM CST
Closer looking! Thumbs up I think we are right going with Agave something.

O.K. here's a close up of the lateral spine. This pierces leather and draws blood. There's also a pick of the inside of the leaves when I broke one.

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I do have an A. stricta. There's also A. geminiflora a very similar relative.
The A. stricta is in the huge red pot. This one is 'user friendly' and I can 'pet' it---no blood or pain.
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If I tried this stunt with my mystery plant I'd be bleeding all over the place.
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Truly do have to fly. Will be back tomorrow.
AG
To boldly grow where no man has lawn before.
Name: Agavegirl1
South Sonoran Desert (Zone 9b)
Cactus and Succulents Bookworm Xeriscape Hummingbirder Butterflies Bee Lover
Critters Allowed Enjoys or suffers hot summers Dog Lover Garden Photography Region: Southwest Gardening Container Gardener
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AgaveGirl1
Feb 10, 2017 11:22 AM CST
Good News.

I am almost 100% sure that I know what my mystery plant is. Thumbs up

It boiled down to 2 choices. Those being the A schottii v. schottii and Mescalito Agave felgeri. The two look identical but I decided it was the Mescalito A. felgeri.

Mescalito A. felgeri is in the Group of Parviflorae. It is a rare scattered species from the coastal areas and plains in Sonora MX. It is extremely Xeric and quick to grow. It produces thin leaved rosettes. It pups profusely and makes a tight clump. It clumps up to 4' feet wide. * It is 14"-18" tall max*.

It is mature in approximately 7-15 years. Upon maturity it will produce a 2'-8' spike of yellow fragrant flowers. The flower will die as will that rosette that produces the flower BUT the pups live on.

Now the runner up was the A. schottii. It is also known as Schott's Agave, Schott's Century Plant or Shin Dagger. (NO KIDDING). It is also in the group Parviflorae and the family Agavacea. It looks almost identical to the Mescalito A. felgeri.

Key difference differences are height, and availability.

*The A. schottii will become 2' tall.* It will produce a 4'-8' foot stalk with yellow flowers as well. It is also Xeric. It is a perennial. It is a native of AZ is the very specific and highly limited area/range in which I live. It is also native only in NM's deepest South Western area bordering AZ.

*This plant is rare* in the U.S. and has a very limited distribution in AZ and NM. It is also on the threatened-endangered list. Sad

So my 3 primary reasons for deciding on the Mescalito A. felgeri. were:
--- Height of the plant.(less than 18") .
--- Age correlates with the fact it has not flowered. My neighbor's plant is age 12 years old or thereabouts, and has never flowered. May take another 2 or 3 years for this.
---This Mescalito A. felgeri is not a 'threatened-endangered' species. It would be relatively available and not hard to obtain.

(The A. schottii is threatened-endangered and I don't think this plant would be easy to obtain from just any old place or landscaper. If so, it most certainly be cheap. since it is endangered you would probably have to register the plant.)

I went with the Mescalito A. felgeri for these reasons.

If anyone wants to help weigh in on these two specific plants and help me confirm the ID it would be greatly appreciate. Would love to have a confirmation. Thumbs up

AG
To boldly grow where no man has lawn before.
Name: Agavegirl1
South Sonoran Desert (Zone 9b)
Cactus and Succulents Bookworm Xeriscape Hummingbirder Butterflies Bee Lover
Critters Allowed Enjoys or suffers hot summers Dog Lover Garden Photography Region: Southwest Gardening Container Gardener
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AgaveGirl1
Feb 11, 2017 10:34 AM CST
The plant has been 100% confirmed. Hurray! Hurray!
It is Agave felgeri.

Thanks for all the help everyone. Much appreciated.

AG
To boldly grow where no man has lawn before.
Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Feb 11, 2017 10:53 AM CST
Glad you got the ID confirmed! Here's the link to the database for Mescalito (Agave felgeri)
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


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