Ask a Question forum: Is neem oil systemic?

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Name: Philip Becker
Fresno California (Zone 8a)
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Philipwonel
Feb 9, 2017 2:26 PM CST
I was told that neem oil is systematic. That it wrorks for a month. And takes about a week to start working.
I want to be geared up for another invasion of cucumber beetles and squash bugs.
Any help to combat those devils will be the most appreciated. 😁
Thank y'all. 😎😎😎
Anything i say, could be misrepresented, or wrong.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Feb 9, 2017 4:03 PM CST
"Azadirachtin is systemically taken up by plants through roots and weakly systemic in the leaves. It has both systemic and dirct contact action. Only sucking and piercing insects are affected by the systemic form.

This extract also acts as an antifeedant, repellent, growth retardant, sterilant, direct toxin and deterrent to egg-laying. Extracts have inhibited feeding in 170 insect species in seven orders, normal growth in 4 orders and it is directly toxic to aphids, termites and various caterpillars. It disrupts metamorphosis in extremely small amounts."

From Oregon State Extension:
http://extension.oregonstate.e...

Azadiractin is part of the oil - so it's primarily systemic when applied as a soil drench and taken up by the roots. In that case it wouldn't help with your particular bugs because they are chewers, not sucking and piercing insects. You'd have to apply it to the leaves however one report I saw said that it is not effective against adult cucumber beetles anyway.

Can you not use a row cover like Remay?
[Last edited by sooby - Feb 9, 2017 4:06 PM (+)]
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Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Feb 9, 2017 6:29 PM CST
I spray my vegetable plants with Neem in the spring when I first plant them out. It keeps the aphids away for the entire season but not the squash beatles. Not all Neem is created equal - make sure you buy 100% Neem with no additives. And spray after the sun goes down, otherwise, you will burn your plants.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
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dyzzypyxxy
Feb 9, 2017 8:46 PM CST
Also be sure you don't spray any butterfly host or nectar plants - Neem will disrupt metamorphosis in your butterflies, too.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Philip Becker
Fresno California (Zone 8a)
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Philipwonel
Feb 10, 2017 7:18 AM CST
How about pyrethrin??? Or do i need to just resort to using daizon???
For cucumber and squash bugs ???

Row cover is out of question. To big an area.
I dont understand why it wouldnt kill chewers???
😎😎😎
Anything i say, could be misrepresented, or wrong.
[Last edited by Philipwonel - Feb 10, 2017 7:22 AM (+)]
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Feb 10, 2017 8:54 AM CST
How big an area is it? Unless you're agricultural I don't think you can get diazinon any more even in the USA but maybe someone else can comment on that. I assume the chewers question is for neem - reading between the lines of that extension article I'm assuming when it is taken up by the roots it gets into the sap but no further, and therefore only sap-sucking insects would be affected. I'm not 100% sure but I think pyrethrin is only a contact insecticide which would need a direct spray on the bug. If you can get a direct hit you could try insecticidal soap also.
Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
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dyzzypyxxy
Feb 10, 2017 9:18 AM CST
I also don't think diazinon is available any more, and in any case was never safe to use on edibles. Be careful to check your labels before you spray anything onto your edibles. Better a few bug holes than poisoning yourself and your family.

Insecticidal soap would be my choice, but you still need to be careful only to spray affected plants. It kills lots of good insects as well as the bad ones. Don't spray when it's windy! Repeat often, rinse off as well.

Perhaps the difference between sap-sucking insects and leaf chewers is that the sucking insects are usually on the stems or veins of the plant so they get a lot more sap than a leaf eater?

The other down side to using systemic insecticides is that the insects get resistant to them very quickly. Just like antibiotics, if some survive and breed, their offspring are then resistant. You have to keep changing up your game if you want to use systemics.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
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Shadegardener
Feb 10, 2017 9:27 AM CST
Philip - you may want to check into Azamax - a derivative of Neem. I use it primarily to control spider mites on some of my potted plants.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Feb 10, 2017 9:47 AM CST
dyzzypyxxy said:

Perhaps the difference between sap-sucking insects and leaf chewers is that the sucking insects are usually on the stems or veins of the plant so they get a lot more sap than a leaf eater?


I would agree with that, for example aphids are phloem feeders so would only be getting the sap, whereas many chewers are "skeletonizers" that leave the veins and eat in between them.



Name: Philip Becker
Fresno California (Zone 8a)
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Philipwonel
Feb 10, 2017 11:41 AM CST
I was getting a gray hair when i said diazion !
I ment malathion !
So ? What do y'all use to take care of them ? Without malathion or row covers ???
Anything i say, could be misrepresented, or wrong.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Feb 10, 2017 11:52 AM CST
I used Sevin when I got squash bugs. You can't pick for a few days - I don't remember how many.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Name: Philip Becker
Fresno California (Zone 8a)
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Philipwonel
Feb 10, 2017 12:28 PM CST
@daisyl
Daisy : Thank You 😁
I'll have to pick some up. In past i've hadn't had much luck with sevin.
But maybe it will work better for squash bugs than malathion.
I try to stay organic. But ! Sometimes. Its pesticides or no garden at all !!!
😎😎😎
Anything i say, could be misrepresented, or wrong.
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Feb 10, 2017 12:41 PM CST
Philip, Sevin is toxic to honeybees. Please, if you decide to use the stuff (and I hope you don't) read every word of the directions and follow them precisely or you may well kill off your pollinators and end up with nothing to eat.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Philip Becker
Fresno California (Zone 8a)
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Philipwonel
Feb 10, 2017 12:48 PM CST
Yes !!!
I allways follow directions.
Anything i say, could be misrepresented, or wrong.

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