Daylilies forum: unknown x unknown, sdlg x sdlg, and even (sdlg x sdlg) x (sdlg x sdlg)

Page 4 of 6 • 1 2 3 4 5 6
Views: 6406, Replies: 101 » Jump to the end
Name: Marilyn, aka "Poly"
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Polymerous
Feb 28, 2017 8:45 PM CST
To answer your comment on seedling selection, Derryl, I do not plant the obvious runts of the litter when I get around to planting out seedlings. (Once planted out, some seedlings do outgrow their litter mates.) However, I am not going to keep any monsters, no matter how vigorous, if they are dripping with rust. (I may make an exception if the seedling is not too rusty, if I have very few seedlings of that cross to begin with, and the cross is important or interesting to me (for one reason or other), or if the seedling in question is a volunteer from a dropped seed.) I have enough rust buckets in the garden already, from registered cultivars, that I don't need any more. I'm trying to hybridize for plants that aren't.

As to other hybridizers' practices... sometimes hybridizing clips are lost or otherwise the pollen parent information is lost. It happens. (It has happened often enough here. Rolling my eyes. )

But (as other people on this thread have mentioned), when it comes to buying a daylily, I really want to see some parentage (if it is a new(er) daylily), otherwise reports from other people (if it is an older one). Two traits that are very important to me are rust resistance and bloom opening ability after a cool night. I can sometimes get a hint wrt rust resistance/susceptibility by tracing back the ancestry, but I can't do that if no parents are listed. (Sometimes hybridizers will state their opinion as to resistance or not, and I am pleased that at least some hybridizers seem to now be paying attention to this, but I've bought at least one pricey plant where the hybridizer said he had never seen rust on it, and guess what... that winter, there was lots of rust on it here.) So I am perhaps open to buying a new(er) plant where one parent is listed (depending), but not if both are unknown. Either the plant will be a good one, or it won't, and if it is a good one, I'll read the praise from other gardeners and then maybe I'll get it.

@Protoavis - I actually want rust resistance in any and all of my seedlings, including the poly ones. So my crosses for polys are made taking into account the resistance (or not Rolling my eyes. ) traits of the parents, polymerous or otherwise.

However, I do have an interest in rust resistance regardless of flower form, and most of the daylilies in my garden are not in the least polymerous (nor would I want them all to be polymerous - that would be boring). I do want them, however, to be rust resistant. In that vein, I have an ongoing interest in the large flowered, non-UF/spider near-white tets, and as a class those seem to need some work in the resistance department. (Last season I also made some crosses with a non-poly tet parent which I like and had thought was resistant, but it got a good case of rust late last summer. Since the other parent in those crosses was resistant, I am hoping to get some seedlings with improved (over the first parent) resistance.)

Evaluating an iris seedling, hopefully for rebloom
Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
(Lee Reinke X Rose F Kennedy) X Unk
Region: Australia Annuals Canning and food preservation Herbs Tropicals Foliage Fan
Plays in the sandbox Cactus and Succulents Garden Photography Hybridizer Composter Sedums
Image
Gleni
Feb 28, 2017 10:00 PM CST
I usually won't buy anything unless the parentage is known. It is fun to look at the geneology to see what was what and to plan what could be.
The problem is that when you are young your life it is ruined by your parents. When you are older it is ruined by your children.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
Image
beckygardener
Feb 28, 2017 11:39 PM CST
I, too, look at parentage and stats. My reason to breed registered plants .... is a hobby. I want to name and register some seedlings after loved ones - alive and deceased. So my breeding is more personal. I am not breeding for selling .... though I might sell a plant if it is something others want. But the price will be reasonable (cheap). Hilarious! Hilarious!

I am breeding for rust resistance because I am an organic gardener and I live in the south. (Which is one big reason I like to know parentage .... to know if the seedling's parents show rust resistance. I hate wasting time and space growing rust buckets.) I don't really have a specific breeding direction at this time. I know what I like, such as patterning, crazy growth, rust resistance, and a showy all around good daylily. But I just happen to like most all daylilies. All colors. All shapes of blooms. And now I've become interested in miniatures, too. So my seedlings are all over the range as far as what I am breeding for. I am mainly just having fun and enjoying every single bloom from every single seedling ..... as well as the registered plants that I have obtained over the past couple of years.

Growing and hybridizing is my hobby of choice because it takes my mind off the daily stresses in life and gives me some joy. And right now my stress level is a bit on the high side, which means getting out into my garden to work is a necessity for my sanity! Big Grin First time blooming seedlings are a gift! Like Christmas!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Feb 28, 2017 11:45 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1380420 (3)
Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
Region: Europe Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Organic Gardener Container Gardener
Rabbit Keeper Hellebores Dog Lover Irises Daylilies Cat Lover
Image
Mayo62
Mar 1, 2017 1:47 PM CST
@Polymerous - thank you for your explanation Thumbs up
I'm sure I could not do what you're doing!

It seems my not-being-good at math might come back to bite me in the b*tt if I ever set a goal in crossing Daylilies Rolling on the floor laughing
I think I'll stick with seeds from the LA for now...
Last year my first ever seedlings bloomed and that was enough suspense for me Hilarious!


Mayo
a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Ohio (Zone 5a)
Deryll
Mar 1, 2017 3:17 PM CST
There were times when I have planted the "runts" as you put it, and I got some amazing miniatures out of them, so I take each
one as an individual and give them a shot at least.

My question, if you don't mind me asking, is why do you insist on growing daylilies when you live in warmer climates that
obviously are more prone to having rust? The last several years have proven that this problem is becoming more widespread,
and claims of "resistance" are not exactly a proven science. Like some of the growers, I can claim that my seedlings are more
resistant because I don't have a problem with it, but if you live in rust prone areas, going organic without a spray program is
just asking for poor results. Is there really such a thing as being completely rust free? I don't think I would rely on everything
you read from someone trying to sell you something.

We have very long, and sometimes very cold winters. If I could live in a warmer climate, there are so many other things that
I would dearly love to grow that have fewer problems. I can't grow oranges or bananas or palms out in my yard, and it is a bit
ridiculous to think that I can. We have also lost some of our native hardwood trees to disease in my lifetime, so it is very
possible that this disease is creating a natural boundary and wanting you to plant things that are more reliable where you live.
I do know that if I plant evergreens here, I can expect a certain amount of grief, and if I buy them, I have no one to blame but
myself. I have also learned that some growers who claim that a plant is "dormant".... we won't go there.

I am really glad that I don't live in a place where I have the problems that many of you are having, so I can just cross whatever
I want, plant the seeds and just enjoy the results without all of the paperwork. I have a feeling that if I had all of the poor results
I would take up golf! And if I had all of that paperwork trying to keep everything in order, I KNOW I would definitely be doing
something! Solitaire maybe? Life is too short, and I just don't believe in making things more complicated than they need to be.
For the people who get off on paperwork, I am happy for you if that makes you happy.

Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Mar 1, 2017 3:32 PM CST
Rust problems in the south are nothing compared to Golf problems in the south!
Name: Arlene
Florida's east coast (Zone 9a)
Tropicals Daylilies Bromeliad Region: Florida Enjoys or suffers hot summers Birds
Garden Photography
Image
florange
Mar 1, 2017 8:18 PM CST
Deryll, you don't really understand what you say. You said "why do you insist on growing daylilies when you live in warmer climates that
obviously are more prone to having rust?" Rust is the least of the issues. I live in the same county as many of the big time hybridizers and many of them have left this area, too. My take on it is ... I grow these fussy daylilies so that I can enjoy the newest and biggest and brightest. I'm going over to the Trimmers tomorrow to pick up 3 new 2017 intros. Everything else in my garden is either no work or much less work including my veggie garden. I have tropicals (bromeliads, tibuchinas, justica, bamboo (tall and miniature), colocasias, etc. plus geraniums that bloom all fall, winter and spring and then die. I start my veggies from seed and have 5 different kinds of basil that flourish in our humid hot summers. Can you say that?

The question I will put to you: Why do you live in a climate with harsh winters and stuffy hot summers? My husband is from St. Louis and he says his family would vacation down here on the beach where it was much cooler than in the mid-west.

To each their own.



Name: Marilyn, aka "Poly"
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Polymerous
Mar 1, 2017 9:14 PM CST
We live where we live because that was where the desirable jobs in our profession are. The climate, while zone 9, is actually arid and fairly moderate; the term "Mediterranean" has been used to sum it up. Rust varies here in how much of a problem it is (unlike in the Deep South where the humidity is higher), but it is problematic enough. Some years it has been bad, some years it has been unnoticeable.

I grow daylilies because I like them. There is no accounting for passion. I have to take the bad with the good and somehow deal with the rust, and my choice is to deal with it by growing resistant cultivars. I am not strictly an "organic" gardener (I do use inorganic and time release fertilizers to some extent), but a former life in another discipline (chemistry/biochemistry) has taught me to be extremely skeptical and wary of the widespread use of organic (in the chemists' sense of the word) chemicals in our environment. Just because something is sold at the hardware store (or drugstore) does not make it safe, even with so-called "proper usage". I prefer to err on the side of caution. Therefore, no chemical fungicides will be used here. Hence, back to rust resistance.

It is unlikely at this time that we would move out of this area. If we did, our choices (within the US) would be to go to KS (where DH does not want to go, because of the snow), or down to Austin (where our DD lives). Living in KS might solve the rust issue (I am presuming that it would winter kill there), but I suspect that living in Austin would be a descent into Rust Hell. Rust resistant plants would be even more necessary down there, than they are where we live.

I suppose that you would argue that with the recent years of drought, I should grow more drought resistant plants. (I did add quite a few bearded irises to the garden last year, as well as some Cuphea.) But succulents and many other plants touted for "drought resistant" gardens are not very appealing to me, and despite the frequently seen hype about daylilies being "drought resistant", the reality is, they are not. (They might survive, but they certainly won't bloom well, if at all.) So regardless of whether or not it makes sense to you (or anyone else), I will plod on. I will grow daylilies (until and unless I get tired of them, or we are on such severe rationing that nobody can legally have any kind of a garden, in which case we will be in a world of hurt). I will deal with the the rust. I will get some degree of pleasure and satisfaction out of it all.

And yes, I will make records on my seedlings.

YMMV.
Evaluating an iris seedling, hopefully for rebloom
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Mar 1, 2017 9:55 PM CST
I don't think Deryll was asking why we live where we live, but why we grow daylilies where we live. I live in Southeast Alabama, and for me growing Tomatoes, cucumbers, etc. is the big challenge. Sure I have some rust bucket daylilies, but most are not, and I do have some rust resistant rated plants that are not all that rust resistant. I don't like rust, but I can tolerate it on a few plants and in small degrees. Many of the plants that have rust in my garden have to be looked at pretty closely to detect it, others shout it out at me. I seem to have more faith in rust resistant plants than Deryll, even though several of them have let me down pretty badly. Still, I enjoy slogging through all the available choices and trying to come up with the least prone to rust plants I can find. A beautiful bloom is not all that makes a good daylily in my garden. I don't buy expensive plants, and I still seem to enjoy growing them as much as most people enjoy growing the very expensive ones. Heck a $25.00 plant is expensive, time seems to be the determinant of cost, if you can't wait and have to have it now you have to pay up. If it doesn't matter that the plant was introduced 10 years ago you can get some real nice bargains.
I guess the real question is why do any of us grow plants (daylilies or anything else)? I doubt if most of us could actually put our reasons into words, but what ever drives us we all seem to enjoy it for whatever reason, wherever we live. and however we go about doing it.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
Image
beckygardener
Mar 1, 2017 10:30 PM CST
Deryll - I, too, like the "runts" as I have also gotten some nice "smaller" Daylily blooms and foliage.

You have asked a valid question about growing daylilies in the south. It can be very frustrating to grow many types of plants in the south, daylilies being just one of them. Yet, I do grow many rust resistant daylilies. And I found those resistant cultivars using the rust resistant ratings for many of the cultivars I researched. And hybridizing using these cultivars has proven to create more rust resistant seedlings/cultivars.

For me, the diversity for blooms in a flower family cannot compete with daylilies. The movement of modern Daylily cultivars flowers .... to me .... are astonishing! Daylilies had me at hello. Thumbs up
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
[Last edited by beckygardener - Mar 1, 2017 10:31 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1381064 (10)
Name: Marilyn, aka "Poly"
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Polymerous
Mar 1, 2017 10:40 PM CST
As I said, Larry, there is no accounting for passion.

We moved to where we live now, sometime later I got bit by the daylily bug and got the passion, sometime years later after that came the rust...

Am I going to stop growing daylilies because of the rust? I admit that it put me into a funk for a few years, and I seriously considered it. (That first massive rust explosion was like a hard punch to the gut.) But then I also considered that there were quite a few daylilies left in my garden after the Great 2006 Rust Purge, so...

No.

We're not moving just for the sake of being able to grow daylilies in an area that winter kills rust. (If for no other reason, such areas doubtless get snow, and DH hates snow. Hilarious! )

We may, if it comes to that, move to somewhere with more abundant and dependable water, but that move would be for the sake of overall gardening and quality of life, and not just for the daylilies.

So, stay where we are, grow them as best as I can, and select against rust - both the registered cultivars, and the seedlings.

I'm not giving up daylilies until I'm either tired of/fed up with them, or I'm too old and decrepit to garden - but even then, in either case, I'm sure I'll still have a clump or few around. Near-white daylilies in the Moon Garden are very nice, and there is nothing like cheerful yellow daylilies throughout the garden! Lovey dubby

Evaluating an iris seedling, hopefully for rebloom
Name: Marilyn, aka "Poly"
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Polymerous
Mar 1, 2017 10:45 PM CST
A clarification... when I write "runt" wrt seedlings, it is in reference to a seedling that seems to be weak and sickly and not as vigorously growing as the rest of its siblings. It does not make sense to me to waste my seedling bed space on such.

While my preference is for large flowered daylilies, I have nothing whatsoever against small flowered ones. I have some that I like, and I feel that when chosen and placed with care, they can be an enduring asset to any size garden, whether small or very large or somewhere in-between. Thumbs up
Evaluating an iris seedling, hopefully for rebloom
Sydney, Australia (Zone 10b)
Protoavis
Mar 2, 2017 12:11 AM CST
RE: rust.
The act of human intervention generally skews things away from natural processes (ie look at tetraploids. look at the wide crossing of iris), it isn't out of the realm of possibility to breed things that are highly resistant if one of the main criteria is resistance....granted that probably lends itself to not out crossing out of a cultivated resistant gene pool (which doesn't seem to be the norm)
Anyone with oryzalin (aka Surflan, Embargo), am looking for a small amount rather than 5litres from manufacturer (min size in Australia....)
Name: Arlene
Florida's east coast (Zone 9a)
Tropicals Daylilies Bromeliad Region: Florida Enjoys or suffers hot summers Birds
Garden Photography
Image
florange
Mar 2, 2017 6:50 AM CST
To conduct a program with the intent to minimize rust requires a lot of space. For those of us who basically purchase what we want, breeding programs aren't a priority. My space here on the beach is limited so starting a large number of seeds just isn't going to happen. I do maybe 10-12 seeds a year hoping to develop a good red or white or ruffled pink daylily. Nothing more.
Ohio (Zone 5a)
Deryll
Mar 2, 2017 11:36 AM CST
Not long ago there was a thread about rust where people were talking about rust buckets and losing plants from it. Someone
in that thread mentioned rust ratings, and that they are not reliable. Some plants may have a resistant offspring that are not
resistant themselves, and a plant that appears to be resistant may have offspring that are "rust buckets". There are also
times when a plant might seem resistant one year and get it severely the next. This from what people were saying. I really
don't know that much about rust at all. I did have an outbreak late last year, but thankfully it was killed by frost before any
real damage was done. I can tell you though, the plants that showed the most were the most expensive plants from one
certain Florida grower.

I grow lots of different things, from all kinds of fruits and vegetables, and many many kinds of flowers, including a few
thousand daylilies. I also grow many kinds of tropicals. In the winter months my house looks like a jungle! I was just saying
that I love daylilies too, as much as any of you, but if I were having such a problem growing the ones I really liked because
of a disease that is unpredictable, in a warmer climate, oh how I would love to grow so many other things instead! Even
with as much as I love them, the headaches would not be worth it for me.

I don't like dropping names, but someone mentioned Dan Trimmer. I sent them some photos last year, and they asked for
some of my seedlings simply based on the photos.

I am no scientist, but I will agree with the one comment that breeding for rust resistance will require a lot of space-- and
probably a lot of very intensive research to be reliably conclusive. I wish you luck in your endeavors.
Sydney, Australia (Zone 10b)
Protoavis
Mar 2, 2017 3:06 PM CST
Space would make it easier, but space makes it easier for any intentional breeding plan....it's a game of numbers and chance, more numbers more chances.

Are there different species of rust? I imagine that may play into "this reportedly resistant strain turned into a rust bucket". Being resistant to rust, may just mean resistant to ones in the environment it was grown in but if there are multiple species it's unlikely the breeder would have been able to test for all.
Anyone with oryzalin (aka Surflan, Embargo), am looking for a small amount rather than 5litres from manufacturer (min size in Australia....)
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Mar 2, 2017 3:40 PM CST
There are multiple species of rust fungi, something like 7,000, but, there is only one species that affects daylilies - Puccinia hemerocallidis. However there is more than one strain of Puccinia hemerocallidis in circulation and a given daylily cultivar may be more resistant or susceptible to each of the different strains. So yes, resistance or not of a cultivar may depend on which strain or strains one has in a garden.
Ohio (Zone 5a)
Deryll
Mar 2, 2017 4:15 PM CST
Are you saying that if I live in the north, the best way for me to never worry about rust is to keep from buying plants from
southern growers that could be infected... since rust is not wintered over here? I'm on board if that means I don't need to
keep all of those records! I won't anyway, but still...
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Mar 2, 2017 4:22 PM CST
Since rust doesn't winter over in zone 5a then even if you buy it in from another area it will just be for the one season and be gone by spring. If you want to sell to other areas where it can winter over then you might want to pay more attention to rust resistance.
Ohio (Zone 5a)
Deryll
Mar 2, 2017 4:58 PM CST
So, if all of the people growing daylilies in warmer areas stop growing them, it would go away?

Page 4 of 6 • 1 2 3 4 5 6

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Daylilies forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Member Login:

[ Join now ]

Today's site banner is by dirtdorphins and is called "Monarch fueling station"

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.