Daylilies forum: Primal Scream or Screamcicle

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Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
Dog Lover Daylilies Organic Gardener Houseplants Celebrating Gardening: 2015 I helped beta test the first seed swap
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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DogsNDaylilies
Mar 13, 2017 8:25 AM CST
I'm not a huge fan of eyes, but I think I don't mind the one on Screamcicle so much...if it really is a better plant. So, here's the question:

In your opinion, which is the better plant: Primal Scream or Screamcicle (it's child plant), and why?

Please only answer if you have seen both plants in-person before. I have eyes and can look at the database pictures, too, but I've never seen Screamcicle in person (so I don't know what it's true-to-life color is) and I don't recall the bud/branch statistics on Primal Scream (although the database pictures seem to indicate it's a much lower bud count with maybe 2- to 3-way branching).

Thanks, everyone!
If you know what the bud/branch count of Primal Scream is like, please respond below (whether or not you have seen Screamcicle).
Name: Sue Petruske
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
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petruske
Mar 15, 2017 11:06 PM CST
I have Primal Scream. Although I do not know the bud/branch count, I can say that I was disappointed in the slow growth of it. After seeing great reviews I purchased it in 2014 and as of the summer of 2016, it has not done much. Never produced a lot of flowers.

2014, July 2nd:
Thumb of 2017-03-16/petruske/ce3c00

2016, July 19th: As you see, not a lot of change for 2 years.
Thumb of 2017-03-16/petruske/4ba5ea

Name: Julie
Roanoke, VA (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Region: Virginia Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Heucheras Cat Lover Hummingbirder
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floota
Mar 16, 2017 9:02 AM CST
Both of these have grown here for quite a few years. I'm also quite a bit south of you, and SCREAMCICLE was hybridized right here in VA, so it naturally does well. PRIMAL SCREAM has been here since about 2003 and is a huge clump, which has been lifted and divided at least twice that I can remember. I got SCREAMCICLE from the hybridizer, my friend Pat Cochenour, a few years after it was introduced. It is very popular here in my home region 3.

Both plants do well here and both are standouts in their own way.
Primal Scream is one that needs no name tag, the bloom color is unique.
PRIMAL SCREAM:
Thumb of 2017-03-16/floota/037109 Thumb of 2017-03-16/floota/31cbe2
Thumb of 2017-03-16/floota/222cf2
SCREAMCICLE: I am purposely including this contrasted with a purple bloom behind it.
Although oranges are not my favorite colors in the garden, I've learned over the years that gardens need the BRIGHT colors in the landscape to offset the purples, reds and pinks, which tend to recede into the landscape. Brights stand out and when planted near dark colors, give such good contrast. JMHO.
Thumb of 2017-03-16/floota/d2e7bf Thumb of 2017-03-16/floota/23e30a


So here's the bottom line that I've observed here in my zone 6/7 garden. These observations may be somewhat related to THIS climate and may not hold true for everyone.

First, BOTH are good plants with decent plant habits and both have distinctive colors.
With your location, you might also look at two other good oranges which were hybridized by Ellen Laprise who lives in MA. Those should be hardy and grow even in very northern climates.
What I've come to observe here is that PRIMAL SCREAM tends to be a little bit top budded and when it blooms, POW ( when you have a clump) it will have a lot of blooms open on a given day, but because of this trait, it blooms out fairly quickly, probably in 3 weeks. But when it's blooming, major visual impact.
This picture of SCREAMCICLE may help give an idea of bud placement and count.
Thumb of 2017-03-16/floota/048ee3
SCREAMCICLE has a better bud count here and is better branched and it seems to bloom with fewer blooms each day but over a longer period of time. This too is a worthwhile garden plant. Some people in my area have gotten rebloom. I haven't gotten rebloom on this but just got an irrigation system installed last year. In this climate, rebloom seems very highly correlated with water and how early the initial bloom takes place!
Hope these comments help. Do look at BOB MARLEY and FLAMING FLAMINGO, also very good.
Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
Dog Lover Daylilies Organic Gardener Houseplants Celebrating Gardening: 2015 I helped beta test the first seed swap
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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DogsNDaylilies
Mar 16, 2017 5:10 PM CST
Sue - thank you for the very candid response about Primal Scream. It is always lauded as such a wonderful plant whenever I read about it, but clearly that isn't in everyone's garden! Being from the north, yourself, that gives me a good indication of potential sluggishness is my garden, too. I have seen it in a giant clump in someone's garden a year ago, but for all I know, that clump took ten years to develop!


Julie-I'm really grateful for such a wonderful evaluation of the two. You bring up an interesting point about the booking habits of the two and it makes both more intriguing in their own right. Surely I'd like to see color for longer in the garden, but having a plant with a LOT of color exploding in the middle of contrasting color makes it a useful ornamental in the garden, IMO. The greater number of blooms appeals to me and I keep telling people that daylilies are wonderful because, even when the splash of color from their blooms is no longer present, you still have a nice, grass- like foliage to decorate the spot. (Unless you're in the South and suffering from rust, I suppose.) You gave me some stuff to chew on.


My brain is still munching, but I think I'm leaning more toward Primal Scream. Although, Julie, your pictures make Screams look like a very respectably blooming clump--almost as many blooms on it at once as Primal Scream...
[Last edited by DogsNDaylilies - Mar 16, 2017 5:15 PM (+)]
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Name: Greg Bogard
Winston-Salem, NC (Zone 7a)
Sscape
Mar 16, 2017 6:58 PM CST
My clump of Primal Scream went from three fans to three dozen fans in less than five years. However, it was planted in a huge plastic landscapers pot on my deck filled with super good compost/dirt. I am in Zone 7a--and it has gotten VERY cold here many times since Primal arrived here. I do not have it, but Screamcicle has grown well in other gardens here. So--I think it is a toss-up.
If you plan to breed with it, Screamcicle might be a better parent. Primal Scream is almost impossible to get pods on, and the pollen works only slightly better. I think that is why it grows so well and blooms it's head off---it does not waste energy on pods.



Thumb of 2017-03-17/Sscape/ef53e1




Name: Ken
East S.F. Bay Area (Zone 9a)
Region: California
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CaliFlowers
Oct 25, 2017 2:46 PM CST
Sscape said: My clump of Primal Scream went from three fans to three dozen fans in less than five years. However, it was planted in a huge plastic landscapers pot on my deck filled with super good compost/dirt. I am in Zone 7a--and it has gotten VERY cold here many times since Primal arrived here. I do not have it, but Screamcicle has grown well in other gardens here. So--I think it is a toss-up.
If you plan to breed with it, Screamcicle might be a better parent. Primal Scream is almost impossible to get pods on, and the pollen works only slightly better. I think that is why it grows so well and blooms it's head off---it does not waste energy on pods.


I'm always crowded here, so a 5-gallon pot is the largest thing I've ever grown Primal Scream in, but about 10 years ago I planted 2-3 good sized fans in a 30-gallon pot in my mother's garden near Sacramento, (Zone 8b-9a) where the summer nights are nice and warm, and it multiplied quickly. It's been begging for division for a few years now. As it increased, the branching and bud count went down, but the number of scapes made up for it. It puts on a spectacular show, and it's a favorite because of its substance, finish and twisted form. It opens well in almost any weather. The foliage is always healthy, deeply keeled and narrow. It reblooms occasionally. I've heard that Primal Scream can have three side branches, but I haven't seen that here yet, and I'm not likely to until I can get it in the ground.

I've grown Screamcicle for about three years, and it reliably reblooms in 2-gallon and 3-gallon containers. There are rebloom scapes right now with buds that are about a week away from opening. The only knock against it is that it can be a persnickety opener if the weather is unsteady. It has more than the average number of "two-day blooms", where half of the flower opens on one day and the rest follows the next. This is probably something that most growers in "Daylily Country" won't experience, but is an issue in my low-humidity, semi-coastal climate where nights cool to 55° shortly after dusk. This kind of weather is common well into June, and can really test the opening ability of daylilies.

Though closely related, they're quite different, and when I do get around to making bed space, I'll go with Primal Scream.

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