Roses forum: Tree rose help

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Name: Carly Rush
San Diego California (Zone 10a)
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carlysuko
Mar 24, 2017 3:24 PM CST
Hello,

So I want to transplant a tree rose from my grandfather's backyard as it is being smothered by other plants. I literally didn't see it for awhile because its hidden between a vigorous Cecile Brunner and some other shrubs. Well because it has gotten bad air circulation, neglect ect. Its not in the greatest shape. Looks like sooty mold is growing between the foliage...well what foliage is left. I did see a couple blossoms on it, which is why I think it might be worth saving? I would like to transplant to a pot if possible. I want to mend it back to health before I plant it where people can see it. I have successfully transplanted a few mature roses before but never a tree rose. Its mature at about 4 1/2 ft. It remarkably still had a tag on it. Its from weeks roses and its a miniature grafted on called sweet chariot. Is it better to plant in a protective spot in the ground? Or is a pot fine? If so how big does the pot have to be? Any ideas, advice, or personal experience given would be so grateful. Confused Crossing Fingers!
Name: Steve
Prescott, AZ (Zone 7b)
Region: Southwest Gardening Roses Irises Lilies
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Steve812
Mar 25, 2017 3:44 PM CST
I'm 100% confident that someone else will have more insight on this, and much of this you already know.
FWIW:

I've never grown a mature rose in a pot; but I know some people who have. An advantage of using a pot at this point is that I'd expect zone 10 to be a little warm for perfect transplanting right now; and I think one might be able to control the conditions in a pot a little better: for example, if the rose needs afternoon shade you could conceivably move it there on a dolly.

If you get a pot that's in the 20 to 24 inch size range and use good potting soil, I bet you could nurse it through. I'd try :
-to get the pot ready before digging;
-to dig it up in the late afternoon,
-to try to get as much of the root mass as possible, and
-to water it in very well
-to give it bright light for at least 8 hrs per day and good air circulation

If I were doing it I would buy some potassium bicarbonate and make a solution per label instructions. Dig up the rose then immerse all of the foliage in a bucket, tub, or planter full of this solution. Maybe use a toothbrush to knock off the heavy globs of mold, if convenient. You don't have to dip the roots. This should help with the mold problem. An occasional spraying might be called for if infection persists. My guess is that the rose will recover, as most minis are reasonably disease resistant, especially in low humidity areas.

Plant it in a pot with good potting soil, preferably with moisture control. You'll need to water it very regularly for three or four weeks until it is established. Then weekly if it's in the 70s, twice per week in the 80s, and three times per week in the 90s.

If you live inland where the sun blazes and the temperature soars, you may have to give the rose a little PM shade. My guess, though, is that near the ocean this might not be necessary unless it seems to be wilting. The next time it goes dormant - or at least when it is not growing vigorously - you might plant it in the ground where you want it to live for a while. Or not.

Good Luck!
When you dance with nature, try not to step on her toes.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Mar 26, 2017 6:31 PM CST
I've grown 'Sweet Chariot' as a tree rose in a container in San Diego. It's a beauty.

Given the proper conditions, you will have a weeping rose that can have a four foot spread.

Altho' the rose was distributed by Weeks, the rose you have in your grandfather's garden was probably purchased from Tiny Petals Nursery in Chula Vista.

The root stock is Dr. Huey. So, you can treat it like any other budded rose that you would plant in a container. The fact that it is a tree rose is incidental.

However, since the rose can grow quite large, I would use a much larger container than the size recommended by Steve to give plenty of room for the roots.

'Sweet Chariot' does not mind a hard prune, so you can prune off any wood that looks dead or unhealthy. It comes back like gangbusters.

It does need good air circulation or else it is prone to mildew.

Before you plant the rose in the container, make sure you put something under the edges of the pot to lift it from the hardscape, if you are putting it on a patio, so that you can ensure that you have good drainage. Once you get the soil and plant in the container, it will be quite heavy.

As for watering, I used to deep water my container roses once a week and then test the plant throughout the week to see if it needed more water. The way I tested all of my container grown roses was when I first planted them, before watering them in, I would lift the side of the pot to see how it felt when the soil was dry. Then I would water it heavily and then lift the side of the pot again to see how it felt when the soil was very wet. Yes, I did this even for the BIG pots. You only have to lift it a little bit to know if the soil it too wet to water again.

This is how I avoided root rot in all of my container roses because the pots do dry out at different rates.

Do not feed the rose until you see new growth. That tells you that the rose has grown new feeder roots to replace those that were damaged during the transplanting process and is now sending moisture up to the top growth. When you do feed the rose, water the rose deeply the day before feeding, then using a liquid fertilizer ... not time released ... feed at half strength. You will never have to worry about fertilizer burn.

I grew over 50 roses in containers while I lived in a condo in El Cajon (the HOA had fits) and my feeding practice was to feed lightly and often.

For 'Sweet Chariot', I did have to add iron a couple of times during the season.

When you site the rose, keep in mind that you may have to wash it down daily to avoid spider mite infestations.

You have a treasure in that rose. No one makes four foot standards any more and 'Sweet Chariot' is one of the most beautiful weeping roses I have ever seen.

Good luck.

I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Carly Rush
San Diego California (Zone 10a)
Image
carlysuko
Apr 17, 2017 1:56 AM CST
RoseBlush1 said:I've grown 'Sweet Chariot' as a tree rose in a container in San Diego. It's a beauty.

Given the proper conditions, you will have a weeping rose that can have a four foot spread.

Altho' the rose was distributed by Weeks, the rose you have in your grandfather's garden was probably purchased from Tiny Petals Nursery in Chula Vista.

The root stock is Dr. Huey. So, you can treat it like any other budded rose that you would plant in a container. The fact that it is a tree rose is incidental.

However, since the rose can grow quite large, I would use a much larger container than the size recommended by Steve to give plenty of room for the roots.

'Sweet Chariot' does not mind a hard prune, so you can prune off any wood that looks dead or unhealthy. It comes back like gangbusters.

It does need good air circulation or else it is prone to mildew.

Before you plant the rose in the container, make sure you put something under the edges of the pot to lift it from the hardscape, if you are putting it on a patio, so that you can ensure that you have good drainage. Once you get the soil and plant in the container, it will be quite heavy.

As for watering, I used to deep water my container roses once a week and then test the plant throughout the week to see if it needed more water. The way I tested all of my container grown roses was when I first planted them, before watering them in, I would lift the side of the pot to see how it felt when the soil was dry. Then I would water it heavily and then lift the side of the pot again to see how it felt when the soil was very wet. Yes, I did this even for the BIG pots. You only have to lift it a little bit to know if the soil it too wet to water again.

This is how I avoided root rot in all of my container roses because the pots do dry out at different rates.

Do not feed the rose until you see new growth. That tells you that the rose has grown new feeder roots to replace those that were damaged during the transplanting process and is now sending moisture up to the top growth. When you do feed the rose, water the rose deeply the day before feeding, then using a liquid fertilizer ... not time released ... feed at half strength. You will never have to worry about fertilizer burn.

I grew over 50 roses in containers while I lived in a condo in El Cajon (the HOA had fits) and my feeding practice was to feed lightly and often.

For 'Sweet Chariot', I did have to add iron a couple of times during the season.

When you site the rose, keep in mind that you may have to wash it down daily to avoid spider mite infestations.

You have a treasure in that rose. No one makes four foot standards any more and 'Sweet Chariot' is one of the most beautiful weeping roses I have ever seen.

Good luck.



Hello RoseBlush1,

The information you've given was more than I could have hoped for! Thank you, I am going to follow your recommended advice. Once it starts to look good again I will be sure to post photos... Hurray! Hurray! very exciting! As for the transplanting process, would you recommend I water it in with a root stimulant and/or superthrive maybe? Should I keep it in shade for awhile, or part shade? Also you were 100% right about Tiny Petals, apparently it was my grandmother's favorite place, she loved miniature roses. Thank you so much for the thorough information!

Carly
[Last edited by Calif_Sue - Apr 24, 2017 10:34 PM (+)]
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Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Apr 17, 2017 2:57 AM CST
Carly, I started my rose life by volunteering at Tiny Petals, which was founded by Dee Bennett. At that time, the nursery was run by her daughter and a partner. I am familiar with the roses that were sold through TP.

Dee was taught to breed roses by Ralph Moore, the breeder of 'Sweet Chariot'. She made a special trip up to Visalia where his nursery was located to learn how to breed roses. Ralph's philosophy was that knowledge unshared was knowledge wasted and he was willing to teach anyone who was seriously interested in breeding roses. Dee did not have any formal horticultural training, but she did have an eye for choosing seedlings to bring forward and eventually to market.

Tiny Petals carried many of the Ralph Moore roses. My rose mentor, Kim Rupert, had been mentored by Ralph for a couple of decades before I met him. Through him, I met Ralph. I had the opportunity to really learn how to grow roses from the people who were breeding the roses.

Back then, there were no special potting soils or specially formulated rose fertilizers. The potting soil mix suggested was one that allowed for good drainage that fit the climate where the rose would be grown. As for the rose food, Ralph was the first person I heard say, "Roses can't read. Buy the cheapest balanced fertilizer with all of the basic elements (NPK) that a plant needs and let the plant let you know if it needs anything else like iron, but feed it lightly and often."

All of the tree roses sold by Tiny Petals were budded by Weeks Roses. Some of the were spectacular, but I think 'Sweet Chariot' was beyond spectacular. My rose was simply too large for me to move and take with me. It's good to know someone else is growing it and I am truly looking forward to your photos ... Smiling

There is no need for root stimulants or vitamins. That's just marketing. I know others will disagree with that statement, but we all have different training and experiences.

Roses grow their roots first, so your newly transplanted tree will look like it is just sitting there, but it is doing what roses do ... growing its roots first. Just keep the plant moist until you see that new growth I mentioned and then feed it lightly and you will have a happy rose.

All it needs is time.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
RoseBlush1
Apr 17, 2017 3:29 AM CST
Oh, Carly ... I forgot to add ... depending on how close your grandfather's garden is located to the ocean, you do not need to keep your transplanted rose in shade or semi-shade. Roses manufacture food through photosynthesis in their leaves.

If you want to push root growth, do not allow the rose to produce blooms the first season, but allow it to have sunlight so the leaves can do their part in feeding the rose.

Good luck ... Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
RoseBlush1
Apr 17, 2017 10:40 AM CST
Carly ... Thank you for the acorn ... Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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