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Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
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joannakat
May 8, 2017 3:43 PM CST
Hi!

This is growing wild where I live (North-central Massachusetts, zone 5b). It's very beautiful but very tiny. I have no idea what it is but would love to know.

Thanking people in advance!
Thumb of 2017-05-08/joannakat/202d7f Thumb of 2017-05-08/joannakat/95cf29 Thumb of 2017-05-08/joannakat/7730a9

AKA Joey.
Perthshire. SCOTLAND. UK
Region: United Kingdom Plant Identifier
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Silversurfer
May 8, 2017 3:57 PM CST
It is a very cute Viola sp.
See link for ones found in USA.

https://uswildflowers.com/wfqu...
Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Vermiculture
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joannakat
May 8, 2017 4:10 PM CST
Silversurfer said:It is a very cute Viola sp.
See link for ones found in USA.

https://uswildflowers.com/wfqu...


close, but I'm not finding it there. The shape of the flower is different, as are the leaves on the ones that are similar. It is very close though!
AKA Joey.
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
May 8, 2017 4:15 PM CST
Try looking at this one to see if it makes you any happier:
Northern Downy Violet (Viola sagittata var. ovata)
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Vermiculture
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joannakat
May 8, 2017 4:31 PM CST
greene said:Try looking at this one to see if it makes you any happier:
Northern Downy Violet (Viola sagittata var. ovata)

It makes me very happy! I love violets! But it's still different. Longer flower stem and different shape of leaf. But thank you.... Smiling
AKA Joey.
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
My dogs love me; some people don't.
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greene
May 8, 2017 4:46 PM CST
Thumbs up
I also love violets but only have one.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Christine
North East Texas (Zone 7b)
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wildflowers
May 8, 2017 4:59 PM CST
I think it looks like one I have growing called Viola odorata. Sweet Violet (Viola odorata)
May your life be like a wildflower, growing freely in the beauty and joy of each day --Native American Proverb

Perthshire. SCOTLAND. UK
Region: United Kingdom Plant Identifier
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Silversurfer
May 8, 2017 5:09 PM CST
Viola sagittata...looks a good match.
The leaves of your Viola are not the normal rounded shape. Flower stalk is hairy.
Key to be found on this site.

https://gobotany.newenglandwil...

https://www.ct-botanical-socie...

https://newfs.s3.amazonaws.com...
[Last edited by Silversurfer - May 8, 2017 5:22 PM (+)]
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Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Vermiculture
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joannakat
May 8, 2017 5:14 PM CST
wildflowers said:I think it looks like one I have growing called Viola odorata. Sweet Violet (Viola odorata)


Thanks, but no cigar. Sad
AKA Joey.
Perthshire. SCOTLAND. UK
Region: United Kingdom Plant Identifier
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Silversurfer
May 8, 2017 5:21 PM CST
Viola is the largest genus in the family Violaceae, containing between 525 and 600 species!

Keep looking.
Recheck the same plant in a day or to..it may grow bigger.
Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Vermiculture
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joannakat
May 8, 2017 5:29 PM CST
Silversurfer said:Viola sagittata...looks a good match.
The leaves of your Viola are not the normal rounded shape. Flower stalk is hairy.
Key to be found on this site.

https://gobotany.newenglandwil...

https://www.ct-botanical-socie...


Darn! The key is an unsecure site so I can't access it.

It's not the sagi though, I'm pretty sure. If you look closely at my picture, you'll see that it only has four petals, and the center part (facing down and away from the stem) is pointey. I'll post it again here for comparison with the sagi. You'll notice the size in comparison to my hand. I'm holding it up like that not only for comparison, but because these petite flowers actually face downward!

I'm pretty sure that most violas have the same flower shape.

Mine:
Thumb of 2017-05-08/joannakat/d66c00

The Sagi:
Thumb of 2017-05-08/joannakat/73a24d

Hope this will help! Smiling
AKA Joey.
Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Vermiculture
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joannakat
May 8, 2017 5:31 PM CST
Silversurfer said:Viola is the largest genus in the family Violaceae, containing between 525 and 600 species!

Keep looking.
Recheck the same plant in a day or to..it may grow bigger.


Thanks. I will. But they're all over the forest floor here and I've never seen them change or get bigger. However, if they are a viola, then like the Johnny Jump-ups, I understand why they're everywhere! I'll update in a few days. Meanwhile, please take a look at the pictures I just posted and see what you think.
AKA Joey.
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
My dogs love me; some people don't.
Deer Bookworm Keeper of Poultry Vermiculture Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Georgia
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greene
May 8, 2017 5:40 PM CST
While you are out there checking on the plants maybe you could try to take some photos that are more clear -
blooms, leaves, etc.
Instead of fingers in the photo maybe take along a piece of grey paper to isolate the plant from the background. Thank You!
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Vermiculture
Image
joannakat
May 8, 2017 5:45 PM CST
greene said:While you are out there checking on the plants maybe you could try to take some photos that are more clear -
blooms, leaves, etc.
Instead of fingers in the photo maybe take along a piece of grey paper to isolate the plant from the background. Thank You!


Excellent idea @Greene! I will! I'll also try for a better close up that shows more detail. Might take me until Wednesday though. Thank You!
AKA Joey.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
May 8, 2017 5:48 PM CST
Northern Downy Violet (Viola fimbriatula)
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

Webmaster: osnnv.org
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
My dogs love me; some people don't.
Deer Bookworm Keeper of Poultry Vermiculture Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Georgia
Plant Identifier Rabbit Keeper Composter Garden Sages Native Plants and Wildflowers Herbs
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greene
May 8, 2017 6:01 PM CST
The reason I suggested 'no fingers' is that our database mods like to see no fingers in the images and I am thinking you will be having some really good images to add to the database.

One last guess/suggestion before I head off to dream land (because I am old and need lots of sleep) -
Viola adunca
http://www.mass.gov/eea/docs/d...
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Vermiculture
Image
joannakat
May 8, 2017 6:12 PM CST
greene said:The reason I suggested 'no fingers' is that our database mods like to see no fingers in the images and I am thinking you will be having some really good images to add to the database.

One last guess/suggestion before I head off to dream land (because I am old and need lots of sleep) -
Viola adunca
http://www.mass.gov/eea/docs/d...


Now, THAT"S looking a lot like it! It would be cool to see something on the endangered list flourishing out here! I'll have to get back with more pictures on Wed. Wish me luck--my only camera is the one on my phone. Thumbs down
AKA Joey.
Perthshire. SCOTLAND. UK
Region: United Kingdom Plant Identifier
Image
Silversurfer
May 9, 2017 1:29 AM CST
joannakat said:
. If you look closely at my picture, you'll see that it only has four petals


See your pic 1. the flower at the top left clearly has 5 petals and a spur.
Good idea to get clearer imagaes.
At least we all agree Viola now.

Viola adunca....leaves don't fit...See your 1st pic.showing a leaf longer than wide, scalloped edge, hairy. Flower stalk hairy.
Quote from link below........"The leaves are egg-shaped to nearly round in outline, mostly 1 to 2.5 cm (0.4–1 in.) wide "

http://www.mass.gov/eea/docs/d...




Copy of key.. from here...
https://gobotany.newenglandwil...


Information from Dichotomous Key of Flora Novae Angliae

25.  Viola sagittata Ait. NC

arrowhead violet.  25a. Viola fimbriatula Sm.;  25b. Viola emarginata (Nutt.) Le Conte; 
 V. emarginata (Nutt.) Le Conte var. acutiloba Brainerd; V. sagittata Ait. var. subsagittata (Greene) Pollard • CT, MA, ME, NH, RI, VT. Fields, roadsides, waste areas, woodlands, clearings, meadows, shorelines, lawns, swamps.

1a.  Leaf blades densely short-pubescent, spreading to somewhat ascending, usually ovate to ovate-oblong, serrate near the base of the blade, usually coarsely so; petiole shorter than the blade (sometimes equal to in later season); sepals ciliate; cleistogamous peduncles prostrate to ascending … 25a. V. sagittata var. ovata (Nutt.) Torr. & Gray

1b.  Leaf blades glabrous to somewhat short-pubescent, erect or strongly ascending, usually triangular-lanceolate, with small lobes near the base [Fig. 936]; petiole equal to or longer than the blade; sepals eciliate; cleistogamous peduncles erect 
 … 25b. V. sagittata var. sagittata

Variety ovata is known from CT, MA, ME, NH, RI, VT. Variety sagittata is known from CT, MA, ME and is of conservation concern. Reports of this variety from RI and VT (e.g., Seymour 1982) are based on specimens of Viola sagittata var. ovata (though it is expected to occur in RI). Variety sagittata, though often from dry-mesic habitats, is more often found on mesic to wet-mesic substrate than is var. ovata.

25a×25b.  Viola ×‌conjugens Greene is a very rare violet hybrid known from CT, MA. The plants usually have pubescent foliage and vary from displaying intermediacy in characters to combining different character states from the parental taxa. Given that the two varieties forming this hybrid are not always sharply distinct (i.e., intermediate plants are infrequently collected), sterility of capsules is an important character to use to determine hybrid origin (in addition to intermediate or confounding character states).

25a×27.  Viola ×‌fernaldii House is a rare violet hybrid known from MA, ME, NH, VT. 
It has pubescent foliage with leaf blades that are narrow-ovate (intermediate between the parental taxa). The sepals are ciliate (as in the parents) and are generally more elongate than in V. sororia. The fruits vary from green and obloid to marked with purple and subglobose.

25a×29.  Viola ×‌convicta House is a very rare violet hybrid known from CT. It has pubescent foliage with narrow-ovate to ovate leaf blades that show a broad, sometimes elongate, terminal lobe and 3–6 short, sometimes tooth-like, lobes along the basal margin. The bases of the leaf blades vary from cordate to nearly truncate. Sepal characteristics tend to be intermediate between the parents (lanceolate and acute to acuminate at the apex in V. sagittata, ± broad-lanceolate and obtuse at the apex in 
 V. subsinuata).


[Last edited by Silversurfer - May 9, 2017 2:29 AM (+)]
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Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Vermiculture
Image
joannakat
May 9, 2017 6:01 AM CST
Wow, @Silversurfer! You clearly put a lot of thought and work into this! I will come back to it later in the week, and with some better pictures.
Thank You!
AKA Joey.
Eastern Massachusetts (Zone 5b)
jsf67
May 9, 2017 8:45 AM CST
Your photos look like a perfect match for one of the two Viola types I have. After comparing many online photos, I'm pretty confident of my ID as Northern Downy. Someone already posted a link to my photos.

To my non expert eyes, several varieties of Viola have flowers that I could not distinguish from these. But only Northern Downy has the specific range of leaf shapes that this plant has.

I also dug one up and washed off the tiny bulb and roots (you can see in one of my photos). Other Viola have very different underground structure. But unfortunately, I never found pictures of underground structure of Violas that might be confused above ground with these. I only saw the below ground structure is unambiguously different on some Viola whose above ground structure is also unambiguously different from these.

I see your reaction to my photos:

But it's still different. Longer flower stem and different shape of leaf.


But I think you are mistaken. I'm not even sure which you think has the longer stem flowers, mine or yours. The one I dug up and cleaned for that flower close up makes that stem look longer. It varies plant to plant and I don't think what you have is outside that range. I really don't think the leaf shape is different. I wonder what you are seeing to say that.

You also said:

Now, THAT"S looking a lot like it!


So far as I could tell you were referring to a specific one of the several types of Viola that share the common name "Sand Violet". That one appears to be distinct from all the other Viola growing in Massachusetts in the fact that its leaves come off the same stem as the flower well above ground level. Both kinds of Viola that I have and I believe yours as well have leaves whose connection to the the same plant as the flower stem is underground or right at ground level.

If you search online for "Sand Violet" many of the images are of the plant I think we both have (Viola sagittata var. ovata), because it is one of the common names for that plant. The link you seemed to be referring to (Viola adunca) is another named "Sand Violet" but I can't see how you think it is very similar to the one you photographed.
[Last edited by jsf67 - May 9, 2017 9:25 AM (+)]
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