Plant Database forum: Should this one be listed as x houghtonii?

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Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
May 13, 2017 6:23 AM CST
I'm not sure but wondering if there is a true cultivar named Mother of Thousands (Kalanchoe 'Houghtonii') or if this is the cross of K. daigremontiana and K. delagoensis and should be listed in the database as Kalanchoe x houghtonii?

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http://worldofsucculents.com/k...
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Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL 🌵🌷⚘🌹🌻 (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
May 17, 2017 11:54 AM CST
This discussion has been had before and it ended up in the DB as a cultivar, but I agree, FWIW. I've not found anything listing this as a cultivar, but many articles about this ubiquitous hybrid.
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Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
May 17, 2017 12:01 PM CST
LOL, either I missed the earlier discussions about this plant ... or it's quite possible that my old brain completely forgot. *Blush*

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Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL 🌵🌷⚘🌹🌻 (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
May 17, 2017 12:11 PM CST
It was a while ago and I do not remember who-all was involved. My lunch hour @ work is over, if I find it later I'll put a link here.
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
May 17, 2017 2:14 PM CST

Plants Admin

I don't remember the specifics of the earlier discussion either, but I suspect this is a man-made hybrid. Our database, along with the Catalogue of Life and other taxonomic sources, lists only the spontaneous hybrids occurring in the wild. The ubiquity of this species name in commerce probably is the reason that a cultivar entry was created for the plant.
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL 🌵🌷⚘🌹🌻 (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
May 18, 2017 9:30 AM CST
Zuzu, TY.

Sharing links to what you read at Catalogue of Life or other taxonomic resources would be helpful. I do not understand if your comments meant to say that other species of K./B. are not found in the wild, or that the hybrid is not found in commerce? And unsure about the species (one of the parents of the hybrid, or the actual hybrid?) to which you refer as being ubiquitous in commerce, especially since I never shop for plants online.

I've never seen any of the Kalanchoes that are synonymous with Bryophyllum for sale, FWIW, from someone who has never plant-shopped online. I brought some of the hybrid home from a crack in a parking lot in New Orleans. When I said ubiquitous above, I meant it in the sense that this hybrid is a weed that can be found in so many places where the winters are not cold, and not considered a desirable plant even among most "house plant people," especially if they have a greenhouse If people would pay money for this plant, I would love to know !

I thought its' proper epithet was K. x houghtonii, which indicates it is a hybrid. A cross between K. daigremontiana & delagoensis.
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
May 18, 2017 10:58 AM CST

Plants Admin

Hi, Tiffany. What I read at the Catalogue of Life and other taxonomic sources is that the name does not exist. In other words, I read nothing because a search for the name within those sources turned up no results. It is not an accepted name.

Yes, the proper epithet is K. x houghtonii, meaning it's a hybrid taxon. When I referred to the "ubiquity of this species name in commerce," I meant that the hybrid taxon is commonly used in commerce. Taxonomic sources, however, recognize only the hybrid taxa that are the result of spontaneous crosses in the wild. The cross between K. daigremontiana and K. delagoensis did not occur in the wild. The ability of the hybrid to reproduce "like a weed" has no bearing on the possibility of the original cross occurring without human aid.
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
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KentPfeiffer
May 18, 2017 10:04 PM CST

Plants Admin

I'll start by saying I don't know anything about this particular plant.

However, the rules of taxonomy only allow an "x" in front of the specific epithet in cases where hybridization occurred naturally between species in the wild. When hybrid plants are created by crossing two (or more) species in gardens/labs/etc., the proper way of naming it is: Genus 'Culitvar' with no specific epithet listed.

Given that this plant isn't listed in the Catalog of Life, ITIS, or any of the other plant taxonomy databases I commonly use, even as an obsolete or invalid name, it's a safe bet that it's not a naturally occurring hybrid. If so, the way it is currently listed in the database would be as close to correct as we can get.

Unfortunately, a number of horticulturalists and plant breeders seem to have never taken a class in plant taxonomy. Or, perhaps the marketing value of made up pseudo-scientific names is worth more than following the rules. Shrug! Regardless, it's a practice that creates a fair bit of confusion and we deal with as best we can in the database
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL 🌵🌷⚘🌹🌻 (Zone 8b)
Houseplants Organic Gardener Composter Region: Gulf Coast Miniature Gardening Native Plants and Wildflowers
Tropicals Butterflies Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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purpleinopp
May 19, 2017 3:59 PM CST
TY for the clarifications!
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The less I interfere, the more balance mother nature provides.
👒🎄👣🏡🍃🍂🌾🌿🍁❦❧ 🍃🍁🍂🌾🌻🌸🌼🌹🌽❀☀🌺
☕👓 The only way to succeed is to try.

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