Daylilies forum: Seedlings: Would you throw these out?

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Name: Sue Petruske
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
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petruske
May 23, 2017 12:08 AM CST
These seedlings were planted outside in May/June 2016 (seeds were started indoors Jan/Feb 2016). Most are looking great so far but there are some that perhaps have Spring Sickness. Not uncommon in my zone 5 gardens.
I'm wondering if you would suggest that I throw these out. Daylily clumps that I've had for years do grow out of it and end up looking okay. But I just don't know if I should consider it a "weakness" in a first year seedling and get rid of it.


Thumb of 2017-05-23/petruske/98b44f Thumbs down ??

Thumb of 2017-05-23/petruske/9589dc Thumbs down ??

Here are some that are looking good. Thumbs up
Thumb of 2017-05-23/petruske/5b07f5

Name: Judy
Louisiana (Zone 9b)
Region: Louisiana Daylilies Tropicals Region: Gulf Coast Hybridizer Seller of Garden Stuff
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judydu2
May 23, 2017 5:16 AM CST
I don't experience spring sickness where I live, so the affliction in my own seedlings is not something I can address. I have received plants from the north that exhibited it, and they were moved out.

I am one who believes that plant habit is just as, if not more important than, a pretty face and in saying that, my line of thinking is ...why keep any seedling that you know is going to suffer from spring sickness? Yes, they very well may grow out of it, but if you have siblings that are NOT affected by spring sickness, why keep any that do?

In my garden, they would be culled immediately.
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
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Hazelcrestmikeb
May 23, 2017 6:58 AM CST
I wouldn't. I would wait and see. Young plants are vulnerable. Give them time and see how they improve. You live in a state where your spring weather is crazy. My opinion of course.
robinseeds.com
"Life as short as it is, is amazing isn't it ?" Michael Burton
"Be your best you".
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 23, 2017 1:13 PM CST
It would be easier if we knew for sure what caused it (it's not spring weather), why you can have only one fan affected in an otherwise healthy clump, why a plant can be affected one year and not another, why a susceptible cultivar in one garden doesn't get spring sickness in another garden or even another spot in the same garden, why you can have a whole bed of the same cultivar and only some fans on some plants are affected and so on. Some people see so much spring sickness they would be culling almost everything. Hybridizers have even thought they'd bred it out only to find their "resistant" plant got spring sickness in a different garden. So it's a rather difficult call.

Were there daylilies planted in that location in previous years or is it a new bed?
Name: Sharon Rose
Grapevine, TX (Zone 8a)
Grace of the Lord Jesus be with all
Daylilies Composter Cottage Gardener Hibiscus Enjoys or suffers hot summers Zinnias
Salvias Bulbs Amaryllis Lilies Clematis Region: Texas
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Altheabyanothername
May 23, 2017 2:35 PM CST
I agree with Mike. You are in an area where spring sickness can happen. Very uncommon in the south, we have different issues.
I would wait to see what happens. Look at blooms and bud count and fan increase. Experiment with some fans and if it is not a "hard dormant" send two fans south. See what happens. If they continue to exhibit symptoms in the south, maybe then I would consider it a weakness. But if you are growing them just for your own garden, I would give them 3 years. I have also been known when new growth looks strange to use epsom salts with ironite, to get it to grow out of it faster.
Many blessings to you and your garden!
One to take to heart....1 John 4
Name: Debra
Nashville, TN (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Cat Lover Butterflies Region: Tennessee Seed Starter
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shive1
May 23, 2017 3:00 PM CST
I would give those babies more time. They will likely grow out of the spring sickness and may never have it again.
Name: Amber
Missouri (Zone 6a)
Daylilies Region: Missouri Garden Photography
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amberjewel
May 23, 2017 4:07 PM CST
What is spring sickness?
Amber
Daylily Novice
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 23, 2017 4:55 PM CST
amberjewel said:What is spring sickness?


It looks like Sue's second image, and the ones on this page:

http://web.ncf.ca/ep568/galler...
Name: Sue Petruske
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Image
petruske
May 23, 2017 5:16 PM CST
sooby said:
Were there daylilies planted in that location in previous years or is it a new bed?


It's a brand new bed. It was lawn before the seedlings went in. It's right next to one of my large existing gardens.

Name: Sue Petruske
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
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petruske
May 23, 2017 5:31 PM CST
I'm going to let them alone. I'll put markers by some of the worst ones and keep an eye on them.

Sure wish "they" could figure out what causes Spring Sickness and what could be done to eliminate it. It's not a death sentence for the DL but sure stunts them and is ugly until it pulls out of it.

Thanks for your input. I tip my hat to you. I'll try to keep you updated as to how the little guy in the second image continues.
Name: Amber
Missouri (Zone 6a)
Daylilies Region: Missouri Garden Photography
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amberjewel
May 23, 2017 5:37 PM CST
Oh...I've got some of that going on. I didn't even think too much about it. D'Oh!
Amber
Daylily Novice
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 23, 2017 5:42 PM CST
petruske said:

It's a brand new bed. It was lawn before the seedlings went in. It's right next to one of my large existing gardens.



Thank You! Interesting. Did you amend the bed with anything?

Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
There's a place of quiet rest !
Image
Hazelcrestmikeb
May 24, 2017 6:16 AM CST
I am with Amber. I have a couple that is not looking so great. I know it will pull thru, so I keep moving.
Sue that is a good question. Considering it was part of the lawn. Any lawn chemicals used in that area ?
robinseeds.com
"Life as short as it is, is amazing isn't it ?" Michael Burton
"Be your best you".
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
May 24, 2017 6:49 AM CST
Hazelcrestmikeb said:
Sue that is a good question. Considering it was part of the lawn. Any lawn chemicals used in that area ?


The reason I asked is that the current suspects are bulb mites and the leaf streak fungus probably combined with some as yet undetermined factor/s. Until or unless we can eliminate or confirm one or both of those we're not moving forward much with finding out what causes it.

If it is bulb mites one might expect them to be where daylilies (or other things they like) have been grown before more than in "virgin" soil. They are also found in organic amendments such as some manures, so could be introduced that way. So delving into the history might one day help us figure out what results in spring sickness. It's been known for at least sixty-seventy years and still we don't have the answer! Although we do know that it isn't caused by temperature swings after the shoots have appeared above ground.

Name: Sharon Rose
Grapevine, TX (Zone 8a)
Grace of the Lord Jesus be with all
Daylilies Composter Cottage Gardener Hibiscus Enjoys or suffers hot summers Zinnias
Salvias Bulbs Amaryllis Lilies Clematis Region: Texas
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Altheabyanothername
May 24, 2017 7:54 AM CST
@Sooby if bulb mites were the culprit I would think Spring Sickness would be really prevalent in the South. We really grow lots of bulbs in the ground here, never lifting. Lots of our pass along plants are bulbs. All the mites favorites. Maybe they never leave our bulbs and look for daylilies.

May everyone experience peace and joy in their lives!
One to take to heart....1 John 4
Name: Greg Bogard
Winston-Salem, NC (Zone 7a)
Sscape
May 24, 2017 8:34 AM CST
The problem we have here in the Carolinas is: late Spring Frost/Freeze. It wreaked havoc in my garden for years. Last year I made the investment in enough frost protection blanket to cover everything. The plants (especially the Dormants) seem to have antifreeze in them early-on in the Spring. However, later, after they have grown some, the antifreeze goes away and they become more vulnerable. After the plants are up more than 4 inches, I watch the weather closely. If a late freeze is on the way---I break out the cover and put it over the plants. I leave it on until I am certain the threat of all frost is past. It is a lot of work---but it really has made a difference. Not only are the plants bigger, stronger, and healthier, with more scapes and flowers----There is MUCH less Spring sickness, fungus, and flower deformity these past two years. I routinely had at least a dozen Spring sickness plants each year. Last year there were two (out of 700+)----and this year one. It could be attributed to other environmental factors, but I really think the frost/freeze protection made a difference.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 24, 2017 11:04 AM CST
Altheabyanothername said:@ Sooby if bulb mites were the culprit I would think Spring Sickness would be really prevalent in the South. We really grow lots of bulbs in the ground here, never lifting. Lots of our pass along plants are bulbs. All the mites favorites. Maybe they never leave our bulbs and look for daylilies.

May everyone experience peace and joy in their lives!


Bulb mites don't like heat or dryness, they like cool and moist environments, but I have a suspicion that spring sickness is somehow related to dormancy, which you would see less of in the warmer areas. In theory it could be that the culprit has more time, and less plant, to work on when there are dormant buds. Some of us have noticed that registered dormant daylilies seem to get spring sickness more than evergreens but it's hard to know if that's coincidence or reality.

One difficulty with determining the cause is that it varies from year to year and plant to plant. So you can try a treatment to see if it reduces or eliminates it but if it turns out to be a low spring sickness year for the garden in general, or a clump in particular, you do not know whether the treatment really worked (which is why an untreated control group is always needed with which to compare results) or whether spring sickness would have been less anyway. It has happened that people were convinced their treatment, with no controls, worked only to find out another year that it really had not. They just happened to try their treatment in a year/years that would not have had much ss anyway.

Spring sickness starts while the shoots are still below ground, before they emerge in spring. It may even be initiated the year before. If we could figure out exactly when the damage starts it would help. One AHS member did some tests with insecticides and fungicides and found applications in the preceding year seemed to reduce spring sickness the following spring.
Name: Sue Petruske
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Image
petruske
May 24, 2017 11:42 AM CST
Interesting...this information, or should I say lack of, about Spring Sickness. I've always wanted to make a list each year as to which clumps had it and which did not. If only to let me know if it continues (year after year) in the same clump. It's my guess that the answer is "no". The odd thing is that an entire clump (with the exception of one or two fans) may have it. Or in other instances, just one fan in a clump may have it. There just doesn't seem to be any consistency year to year. Maybe I'll go out and start that list this year. Very interesting about the comment that it may even be initiated the year before. Dealing with it for many years now, I tend to believe that is probably true.
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
May 25, 2017 3:10 PM CST
@sooby - Sue, spring sickness in my garden affected EVs. The same plants that were sick the past spring are sick this year. Plus, another one. This last is a SEV. Some really outgrow it (like Spartacus Adorned) some don't and look poor and unhealthy.
I tried using a fungicide with an acaricide combined together and it seems on a couple of plants the results were good. But not on all.

I may move them all and work the soil at the end of summer, even if I'd prefer not to. I noticed that moved plants aren't ready to bloom, even Stella De Oro doesn't show any bud.
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallis.info
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 25, 2017 3:42 PM CST
Yes it can affect evs, just that in my garden a higher percentage of registered dormant daylilies get spring sickness than registered evergreens. I have not analyzed whether those that were registered by southern hybridizers as evergreens are actually setting dormant buds here, which is something I only recently thought of doing when I realized some southern evs actually emerge as if they were dormant daylilies in spring. Is your assessment based on registered foliage type or actual behaviour in your garden?

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