Plant ID forum: Barrage - Salix sp.

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zaca
Jun 4, 2017 1:59 PM CST
For the purpose of mushroom identification I need to know the vegetation of the habitat that, in this case, was the margins of a reservoir of a dam (barrage). The place has few vegetation, the dominant shrub/tree there is a Salix sp., which is the theme of this query. I attach photos of some specimens; I know that there are many species of this genus here, but I don't know how to separate them.
Any help will be welcome.
Thanks in advance,
zaca
________________
Location data:
Continent: Europe
Country: Portugal
City: Portalegre
Place: Barragem de Póvoa e Meadas
________________

Thumb of 2017-06-04/zaca/718e5c
Photo with a general view of the place with many Salix specimens (I believe all of the same species);

Thumb of 2017-06-04/zaca/91edf9
The bark of a branch on the left and the leaves on the right;

Thumb of 2017-06-04/zaca/2d6ef1
Some leaves in front and back views; brilliant in one side and matt on the underside.

Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jun 4, 2017 2:26 PM CST
Willows can be really difficult to identify and I'm not sure it will be possible at the time of these photos. It could have been easier when they had flowers. They do have stipules, which is one feature that can narrow it down but I don't see anything else very distinguishing. Do you have a list of the Salix species that may occur in that area of Portugal so we could try a process of elimination?

zaca
Jun 4, 2017 2:49 PM CST
Thanks, sooby, for your reply.
Yes, I had the curiosity of consulting the internet to know what are the species existing here. I found a scientific report with a key to the (dozens) of species known from Portugal. Unfortunately, I was not able to use it, because of my lack in background to go through it. It is placed the webpage of a portuguese institute for agricultural and veterinary research (INIAV):
http://www.iniav.pt/fotos/edit...
It has an abstract in English, so you can read it.
Regards,
zaca
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)

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plantladylin
Jun 4, 2017 2:52 PM CST
Do you have photos of the mushrooms you want to identify?
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jun 4, 2017 2:54 PM CST
We can try the key, one by one. Can you translate the options for no. 1 into English for us?

zaca
Jun 4, 2017 3:36 PM CST
First let me say something related with the message of plantladylin:
Of course, I have photos of the mushrooms I want to identify. But, this is not the place to present them. However, I can say that there are several, belonging to the following genera: Coprinellus, Coprinopsis, Hebeloma, Inocybe, Panaeolus, Pholiota, Psathyrella.

Thanks, sooby, for your proposal.
I don't mind to try to translate the steps in the key. However, sooner or later the absent information (of which I have no photos) will be needed; what to do then?
Here is the first step in the Key:

(Pag. 8, in bold)
Primarily key of vegetative characters, with reproductive characters in 2nd order
1. a) Sprigs with leaves, buds and / or alternate leaves (exceptionally, at the base of branches, some leaves / gems opposite) ... --> 8
b) Sprigs with at least some leaves, gems and / or opposing aments ..................................... 2
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jun 4, 2017 4:05 PM CST
I agree we may come to a dead end with the key, I was hoping we could at least narrow it down. The leaves are alternate in your pictures so I would go with -> 8. Hoping that there are no, or few that are opposite.

zaca
Jun 4, 2017 4:26 PM CST
Let's go on, a few more:
8. (<-- 1) (a) Shrub more or less erect that exceeds 2 m in height or tree, alternate leaves ...... 11
b) Small shrub with protuberant or ascending branches, sometimes with opposite leaves at the base of branches ...... 9

I suppose that we then go to 11. Right?

11. a) (<--8) Shrub up to 6 m with reddish-brown sprigs; Glabrous gems; Leaves oblong-lanceolate / elliptic or elliptical, rapidly glabrous [when new often dyed purplish],chordate or rounded base, serrated-crenulated margin, long petiole and large stipules ..... 38. S. eriocephala
b) Shrub or tree without these characteristics, namely without the base of the corded leaf ……….…….………. 12

Next 12; Right?
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jun 4, 2017 5:10 PM CST
I would say so, I can't see any leaf bases that are cordate so it would have to be 12.

zaca
Jun 4, 2017 5:43 PM CST
12. a) Adult leaves glabrous; Or with clothing, but never applied-serice ......... --> 32
b) Adult leaves with some applied-sericeous garland [sometimes mixed with unopened woven garments], at least on the lower page .......... 13

Does the translation make sense? where to go?
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Jun 4, 2017 6:14 PM CST
The translation doesn't entirely make sense but if we go with a) being glabrous and b) being not glabrous, I'm guessing b. But it is a guess because although I get the impression from the picture that there are hairs on the leaves I can't be sure (do you remember or can you go again and check?). The parts of the options that don't make sense could make a difference also. Sericeous means covered with silky hairs, which might apply to the whitish backs of the leaves in which case that would also suggest b).

zaca
Jun 4, 2017 6:37 PM CST
Maybe the attached photo can help:

Thumb of 2017-06-05/zaca/24f86c
Detail of the underside of leaves.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Jun 4, 2017 7:02 PM CST
Can't really tell, they look as if they could be fuzzy but I can't actually see any hairs. If you still have that twig maybe you can look with a magnifying lens?

zaca
Jun 5, 2017 4:16 AM CST
Hi, sooby,
your sentence about the leaves "could be fuzzy but I can't actually see any hairs" was precisely my impression in the field and when examined the leaves. In general, I cannot obtain better information with my (poor) hand lens than with a macro photo. Unfortunately, I didn't preserve the twig. I will go back to the place after several weeks.
Could this fuzzy coating be what is called "applied-sericeous garland " in 12.b)
So, choosing 13 in the key, we go to:

13. (a) Single-trunk trees with a clearly 'weeping' habit, short or long branches, outstanding or not; long to very long and clearly sloping branches, reaching the ground ...... --> 29
b) Trees or shrubs without this type of habit, usually long branches and not hanging; short sprigs to medium, outstanding / fallen or not ...... 14

Next 14; Right?

14. (a) Adult leaves with only applied-serice cloth of variable density, +/- dense to glabrescent {exceptionally glabrous) on bottom page ..................... ..................... [Subgen. Salix in majore part. ] .........................--> 22
(B) adult leaves with applied dense sericeous garments, whether or not mixed with other less on bottom page ....................
..................... [Subgen. Salix and Vetrix] ..................................... 15
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Jun 5, 2017 5:28 AM CST
I think if the underneath of the leaves felt fuzzy to the touch it was probably hairy. If you're not sure I guess we need to wait until you can check it when you go back. It's difficult to make sense of what I assume is a Google translation because I got the same wording when I tried Google Translate! I have a Portuguese-English dictionary somewhere and will see if I can get a better understanding of the two options with that.

zaca
Jun 5, 2017 6:04 AM CST
OK, Thank you, sooby.
I will look more attentive next time and will take some samples home. Meanwhile, I upload some photos showing that in winter time the leaves become very colorful and some yellow to red tones are present on the fallen leaves.
Best regards,
zaca

Thumb of 2017-06-05/zaca/232ea8
Leaves in winter time
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Jun 5, 2017 6:13 AM CST
That winter colour may help when we get further down the key. I think pagina inferior means the underside of the leaf, does that make sense in the context?

zaca
Jun 5, 2017 7:17 AM CST
Yes, you understood correctly:
pagina inferior = the underside of the leaf.
Thanks again for your comments and help.
Best regards,
zaca

zaca
Jul 10, 2017 4:03 AM CST
Returning to the place I collected some samples.
Attached you can see photos of a leaf, front and back.
I am not used to seeing leaves of trees with this detail. It seems to me that one can not speak of hairs on the back of the leaf but rather of a fluff, so perhaps "tomentose" is the best designation. Such a fuzz also exists on the surface of the leaf although less intense.
Can this help?
Thumb of 2017-07-10/zaca/59024d
Front of a leaf


Thumb of 2017-07-10/zaca/f55907
Back of the same leaf

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