Plant ID forum: Help with ID

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musta
Jun 7, 2017 6:10 PM CST
Hi!
We are a couple of friends who all have this plant but none of us knows what it is. It grows super fast and almost kills itself cause it keeps growing despite not having enough space. It has a fresh/citrus smell if you rub the leaves. It grows clusters of small purple flowers when dehydrating. The leaves can get pretty big, and the largest plant is mostly shrub-like. The stem gets thick and woody as it grows. Hope you can help identify it!


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Salt Spring Island, BC (Zone 8b)
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islander
Jun 7, 2017 6:36 PM CST
Reminds me of Japanese Shiso (Perilla frutescens)
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Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Jun 8, 2017 12:21 AM CST
It reminds me of Shiso also.
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musta
Jun 8, 2017 2:54 AM CST
Thank you so much! Been reading about it and I think it is a Shiso variant. Not sure I can eat it yet - do you know if there are variants that you can't eat?
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Jun 8, 2017 10:11 AM CST
Eat the young leaves of Shiso anytime. I grow red Shiso to add to my Umeboshi (makes it red) and my husband enjoys the fresh leaves with his rice.

I have never heard of Shiso variants. It does come in red or green.

Where do you live that the Shiso is already blooming? I haven't started my seed yet. Smiling
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
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Calif_Sue
Jun 8, 2017 12:30 PM CST

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Variants:

https://garden.org/plants/sear...
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Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Jun 8, 2017 12:54 PM CST
Don't want to sound like everyone's mother here but, please...do not eat anything unless and until you have a positive identification from a local source. As someone who grows and consumes several types of Shiso and I am not comfortable with your plant being identified as such. It may well be, but please, double check before consuming. Thank you. Thank You!
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Jun 8, 2017 3:19 PM CST
Greene, If you don't think this plant is Shiso, we need to discuss further before a possitive ID is given.

Can you list your reasons?

My only hesitation is that it seems like my red Shiso is hairier and the stems are squarer. But that is just memory as I haven't planted mine yet this year.

I also asked where the OP was located that their Shiso is already blooming.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Jun 8, 2017 3:32 PM CST
I've only grown an ornamental Perilla and that was years ago so don't have the personal knowledge that others in the thread do. When I tried to match the above to pictures of Shiso I didn't really get the teeth on the leaves to match with a picture, but maybe I just didn't find the right one. I agree with Daisy that the stems should be square. They could indeed be but it's not clear from the pictures. Does the flower colour vary? The pictures I found on Google were white with the green Shiso.

musta
Jun 8, 2017 4:52 PM CST
The stem is indeed square and there are tiny hairs on newly grown stems, and on both sides of the leaves. Can't really see them, but you can feel them.
I live in Denmark and the plant lives indoor in a pot on a window sill. I think it started blooming because of stress/dehydration/small pot.
I talked with my friend who I got the plant from (cutting) and she says that the leaves turns darker/more red if left outside.

(Again, thanks for the help! You're awesome.)
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Jun 8, 2017 5:01 PM CST
DaisyI said:Greene, If you don't think this plant is Shiso, we need to discuss further before a positive ID is given.

Can you list your reasons?



Thank you Daisy,

I originally made my post hoping to stop the OP from consuming something that was not yet positively identified.

I'm not an expert on Shiso but I have grown 3 types, none of which look like the images offered.
The leaves look wrong, the stems look wrong, the flower shape looks wrong, the citrus scent does not agree with Shiso.
Also, I cannot see if the stems are square. Where is the plant growing? Where was it obtained?

Also, the proferred image is of a flower stalk has been removed from the plant. It would be good to see the entire plant, including flower stalk. Also to see close up images of the plant, the front and back of the leaves, etc. If possible, a close-up image of the flowers. Thank You!


Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Jun 8, 2017 8:14 PM CST
Sighing! It still looks like Shiso. Some of the green ones do have lavender flowers. @musta, can we get better photos of the flowers? And as Greene suggested, a photo of the entire plant?
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

Webmaster: osnnv.org
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jun 9, 2017 4:32 AM CST
Maybe this ID page will help. What I, as someone not familiar with the plant, other than having grown Magilla years ago, noticed is that the teeth on the leaves look different. They are more even in size and spacing in the pictures of Perilla frutescens but vary in size on the ID plant which even looks doubly-toothed in some areas. According to this ID link there should be a single groove in the stem (not clear on the ID plant but may be there) and the flowers should be two per node. The flowers on the ID plant look like there are more than two per node but again it's not entirely clear in the picture.

Page on IDing Perilla frutescens:
http://www.missouriplants.com/...

Compare also this pic from the database, especially the teeth:



musta
Jun 9, 2017 3:55 PM CST
I will take a picture of the entire plant tomorrow when I get home. The stem is square and it has grooves on each side as you can see in the first picture below. I'm pretty sure the flowers are two per node - there are small leaves that makes it difficult to tell on the picture but I will look into it tomorrow! I've added some more pictures where you can see the small hairs and other details (if you click and see the full picture (sorry about the bad lighting!)) - I will upload some more tomorrow.

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musta
Jun 9, 2017 4:07 PM CST
Oh, and one friend describes it's scent as warm citrus and mint, another as anise, basil and mint. It's difficult to place but it's a very distinctive odor when rubbed/crushed. Haven't tasted it yet so that might be something else entirely.

musta
Aug 1, 2017 1:25 AM CST
Hi everybody! Sorry for the delay (moving, exams, etc).

Added some pictures of the flowers. They grow in two per node, with three flowers, and rotates 90degrees for each node.
I hope you're still interested in helping me id this plant @Daisyl @greene

Thank You!

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Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Aug 1, 2017 10:32 AM CST
Like I said, I am not any kind of expert when it comes to Perilla. I grow 3 kinds and have submitted photos to the NGA database. Feel free to compare the leaves and flowers of your plant to see what you think.


NGA member named rattlebox wrote this article after I questioned whether Perilla Magilla was a Perilla or a Coleus. After communicating with the Ball Company, they changed the name of the plant to make it sound less like the edible plant Perilla.
https://garden.org/ideas/view/...
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
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ctcarol
Aug 1, 2017 12:09 PM CST
The flowers are very similar to plectranthus 'Mona Lavender', but without the long tube, and the leaves are the right shape, but the wrong color. I'm not familiar with any other Plectranthus.
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
My dogs love me; some people don't.
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greene
Aug 1, 2017 3:53 PM CST
Looks like a good possibility. Thumbs up
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
My dogs love me; some people don't.
Deer Bookworm Keeper of Poultry Vermiculture Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Georgia
Plant Identifier Rabbit Keeper Composter Garden Sages Native Plants and Wildflowers Herbs
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greene
Aug 1, 2017 6:10 PM CST
musta said:
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Compare the blooms. Are they close enough?

Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"

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