Daylilies forum: How would you call this?

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Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Jun 22, 2017 9:34 AM CST
I have a new cultivar in my garden, it's an italian introduction.
It has two three fans, one of which is young.

The mature fans are emitting two scapes at the same time.
I don't have any other DL doing so, and never saw it before. Usually is one scape per fan. You need to enlarge the picture.

Thumb of 2017-06-22/cybersix/512623

Thanks for looking!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallis.info
[Last edited by cybersix - Jun 22, 2017 9:35 AM (+)]
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Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Jun 22, 2017 3:53 PM CST
I wonder, if you were to dig down to the source of the scapes, if they are not one scape at the source? An interesting phenomenon in any case.
Donald
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jun 22, 2017 9:08 PM CST
I cannot see enough detail but I think that it is two scapes and two fans.
A normal fan that is flowering has a scape and leaves on the left and leaves on the right as in the schematic diagram below
[click on the diagrams to see all parts of the diagram]

Thumb of 2017-06-23/admmad/c2d035

A plant that looks like it has only one fan but two scapes:



The second diagram is actually two fans, each with its own scape. The leaves numbered 1 were produced by the same growing point that produced scape number 1. After the growing point produces its scape it is finished and cannot make any more leaves. An axillary bud then becomes the new growing point and produces the replacement fan. That growing point, number 2, produced its leaves and then its scape (numbered 2).

I think your plant has a leaf in between the two scapes that is part of the new fan - that is, its midvein is closest to the "older" scape.



Thumb of 2017-06-23/admmad/d75e18

Maurice
[Last edited by admmad - Jun 22, 2017 9:23 PM (+)]
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Name: Marilyn, aka "Poly"
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
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Polymerous
Jun 22, 2017 10:59 PM CST
I'm getting really confused now. I would have called this "instant rebloom", but it is not?

And you're saying that once a fan has produced a scape, that's it, the fan dies ("cannot make any more leaves") but a new fan replaces it? Confused
A 'Premonition of Spring' - PCI time already?!
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Jun 23, 2017 12:55 AM CST
Thanks Maurice. It's probably as you say, I'd like to specify that this plant didn't bloom yet, the biggest scape still has to produce the first flower. There's a leaf in between the two scapes. But the new fan in there is not noticeable.
Sorry Maurice, what is midvein? And why is so far from the plant in your first diagram?

I'm attaching a picture of another plant in which is clear what you mean (I hope the picture will be clear enough to see). Picture should be enlarged to see it well.
Thumb of 2017-06-23/cybersix/f6dbf7

Polymerous, I still haven't got the thing of instant rebloom, but in this case the plant still has to bloom for the first time.
Thanks to everyone
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallis.info
Name: Sue Petruske
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
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petruske
Jun 23, 2017 5:45 AM CST
I see a strange scape on one of my seedlings too.

Thumb of 2017-06-23/petruske/5d91a6

Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jun 23, 2017 6:44 AM CST
@Polymerous

A plant has two very basic and very important parts that produce its growth. These are commonly called growing points or more technically meristems. One determines growth of stems, leaves, scapes, flowers, etc. and the other determines growth of the roots. So one is the shoot apical meristem and the other is the root apical meristem.

The shoot apical meristem uses parts of itself to produce leaves - first a leaf to one side and then the next leaf on the opposite side and a leaf on the first side and so on. When the plant has become mature/adult (usually large enough) the shoot apical meristem stops producing leaves and now produces a scape and scape branches and flower buds. While it is juvenile/vegetative and producing leaves it replaces the parts of itself that it uses to make each new leaf and more - so the shoot apical meristem grows larger with time. When it becomes mature/reproductive and makes the scape, branches and flowers it no longer replaces the parts of itself that it uses to make those. So the shoot apical meristem gets used up.

Like most plants when the shoot apical meristem makes a new leaf there is the possibility of a new meristem being made as well as the new leaf. The new meristem is can be made on the crown at the very bottom of the leaf in the location between where the upper surface of the leaf connects to the crown. That is in the upper angle made between the leaf and the crown. Those meristems are called axillary meristems because of their locations. In some other plants if you cut off the tip of a stem those axillary meristems sprout new branches.

In some daylilies, when the shoot apical meristem becomes the reproductive (the reproductive meristem) scape, that is when the scape starts to develop, that acts in the same way as when the tip of the stem is cut off in other plant species - one or more axillary meristems on the daylily crown immediately sprouts into a new fan. We describe this as continuous growth - the axillary meristem becomes the new replacement shoot apical meristem and starts producing leaves. The cycle starts again. The crown does not die. However, the first scape does finally die and so slowly over time do all the leaves that were made by the first shoot apical meristem.

In other daylilies, when the shoot apical meristem becomes the scape none of the axillary meristems sprout right away. They wait. This is described as discontinuous growth. Those shoot apical meristems are described as dormant - they are not producing new leaves. They may sprout later in the same growing season or they may wait until after winter to sprout. When they sprout they first produce new leaves (a new fan of leaves) and if large enough they later produce a scape (they become the scape) and the cycle repeats.

So when the basic unit of growth in daylilies (a fan of leaves and its scape) is produced the life of the shoot apical meristem that produced that unit of growth is finished and one or more of the axillary meristems on the crown become new shoot apical meristems and produce new units of growth (new fans of leaves).

Yes, it can be described as "instant rebloom" from the viewpoint of the gardener. However, it is not usually two scapes produced by the same shoot apical meristem or actually produced by one reproductive meristem.
Maurice
[Last edited by admmad - Jun 23, 2017 7:05 AM (+)]
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Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jun 23, 2017 7:04 AM CST
@cybersix

The leaf with the arrow pointing to the mid vein is so far away from the plant so that where the arrow is pointing is more obvious.

Click on the photo to see where the arrow is pointing.
Thumb of 2017-06-23/admmad/3cf2da

Daylily leaves have a partial fold in the centre. That is the where the mid-vein is located. They do not lie flat on a flat surface.
Leaves to the left of the scape have their mid vein furthest away from the scape on their left. Leaves to the right of the scape have their mid vein furthest away from the scape on their right.
Maurice
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jun 23, 2017 7:13 AM CST
@petruske

I would assume, without more examples of similar scapes on the same cultivar, that the strange scape is an isolated incident of some accident in the meristem during the development of the scape. Sometimes during the development of the scape a meristem that should have developed into a normal scape branch with buds does not but reverts to producing leaves (stops being reproductive and becomes vegetative) - becomes a proliferation. Sometimes when that happens the meristem produces a few leaves and then reverts back to being reproductive but may only then be able to produce one or two buds. There can be rare, unusual more or less one-off strange developments.
Maurice
Name: Julie
Roanoke, VA (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Region: Virginia Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Heucheras Cat Lover Hummingbirder
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floota
Jun 27, 2017 10:52 AM CST
Dan Hansen's 'Ripsaw' has put up two scapes PER FAN for each of the past three years! This is a trait I could get used to.

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