Gardening for Butterflies, Birds and Bees forum: July 2017 Butterflies, Moths & Larva

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Name: Kurt
Woodbridge , Va (Zone 7a)
Jai guru deva om
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krobra
Jul 1, 2017 11:53 PM CST
Welcome to the July 2017 Butterflies, Moths & Larva Thread

We came here from : The thread "June 2017 Butterflies, Moths & Larva" in Gardening for Butterflies, Birds and Bees forum

Hope Everyone has a Happy , Safe , Butterfly , Moth & Larva filled July

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Not all those who wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien
[Last edited by krobra - Jul 2, 2017 7:53 AM (+)]
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Name: Christine
North East Texas (Zone 7b)
Herbs Seed Starter Tomato Heads Vegetable Grower Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers
Canning and food preservation Hummingbirder Birds Butterflies Dragonflies Bee Lover
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wildflowers
Jul 2, 2017 7:20 AM CST
That is a gorgeous butterfly. I'm jealous too!

I have a couple of Paw Paw trees that I started from seed growing in a pot. I need to figure out the best place to plant them in the ground.

Anyone know what growing conditions Paw Paws like?

A Hackberry Emperor landed on hubby's shoulder. It was like, "No dear, I was talking about the butterfly". Hilarious!

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May your life be like a wildflower, growing freely in the beauty and joy of each day --Native American Proverb

Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
Seed Starter Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
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DavidLMO
Jul 2, 2017 8:54 PM CST
Paw Paw is an understory tree. And shade is preferred though you might read otherwise. If they do get sun, make sure it is morning and not blasting afternoon.

Be careful replanting - they have a tender root systems, so disturb as little as possible.

Good luck attracting a Zebra ST.

I have 3 trees ~ 4 -5 feet and a dozen babies started from seed last year.
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: Christine
North East Texas (Zone 7b)
Herbs Seed Starter Tomato Heads Vegetable Grower Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers
Canning and food preservation Hummingbirder Birds Butterflies Dragonflies Bee Lover
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wildflowers
Jul 3, 2017 8:40 AM CST
Thank you for the good advise, David. Thumbs up Thumbs up
May your life be like a wildflower, growing freely in the beauty and joy of each day --Native American Proverb

Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Seed Starter Dragonflies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Frogs and Toads Garden Procrastinator Cottage Gardener
Birds Annuals Hummingbirder Region: Indiana Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Native Plants and Wildflowers
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jimard8
Jul 3, 2017 11:16 AM CST
Summer Azure
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In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
Name: Kurt
Woodbridge , Va (Zone 7a)
Jai guru deva om
Hummingbirder Butterflies Birds Dragonflies Garden Photography Container Gardener
Seed Starter Frugal Gardener The WITWIT Badge Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Art
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krobra
Jul 3, 2017 12:57 PM CST
13 sec video of an eastern tail blue fluttering between wet spots on the patio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

no pics but I did fish one out of the bird bath earlier too , it was soaked and took a good five minutes or so to dry it off enough to take short fluttering hops and stand up on it's own.
Not all those who wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien
Name: Kurt
Woodbridge , Va (Zone 7a)
Jai guru deva om
Hummingbirder Butterflies Birds Dragonflies Garden Photography Container Gardener
Seed Starter Frugal Gardener The WITWIT Badge Annuals Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Art
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krobra
Jul 3, 2017 3:26 PM CST
a few Male Eastern Tiger ST shots

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Not all those who wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien
Name: Margaret
Near Kamloops, BC, Canada (Zone 3a)
Region: Canadian Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Tip Photographer Garden Ideas: Master Level I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
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mcash70
Jul 3, 2017 4:07 PM CST
Nice shots Kurt. Thumbs up I have been seeing more Western ST than usual this year, but so far they wont sit still anywhere that I can get a photo. Glare

New sighting for me, male Acmon Blue (Icaricia acmon) very pretty little one, he was mineral feeding I guess on the moist soil. Enlarge for best detail.

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Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
Seed Starter Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
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DavidLMO
Jul 3, 2017 6:22 PM CST
@Wildflowers

Be aware that the Paw Paws from seed are slow growers initially. Once they take off, they tend to grow faster. This is after a few years from seed. Sad

BUT once established (3 or so feet/couple of years they tend to shoot up faster.

I have seen hundreds of trees in nature they are always an understory tree and always in quite shaded areas. They also tend to grow on the edge of ravines and creeks.

Thank You! for the acorn.

And a few more years and you can get the tasty famous Missouri (or fill in yer fav state) banana - which you will either love or hate. nodding I find them quite tasty, but they are truly edible only for about a day or so.

And they are the only host for Zebra Swallowtails. Thumbs up
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
Hi Everybody!! Let us talk native.
Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Butterflies Garden Ideas: Master Level Forum moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Birds Cat Lover
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frostweed
Jul 3, 2017 7:46 PM CST
Wow Margaret! that Acmon Blue is a really gorgeous butterfly! Smiling
Wildflowers are the Smiles of Nature.
Gardening with Texas Native Plants and Wildflowers.
Name: Margaret
Near Kamloops, BC, Canada (Zone 3a)
Region: Canadian Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Tip Photographer Garden Ideas: Master Level I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Morning Glories Critters Allowed Birds Houseplants Butterflies Garden Photography
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mcash70
Jul 3, 2017 11:09 PM CST
Thank you Christine, he sure is, and unlike so many other butterflies he allowed me to get quite close with the camera, it was kind of windy and kept blowing him around a bit. Big Grin
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
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jmorth
Jul 4, 2017 12:51 AM CST
Here's a comment on paw paws from yesteryear -

Posted by jmorth (central Illinois) on Nov 9, 2011 12:19 AM
Fruit is quite edible, ..Matter of fact: chilled fruit was a dessert favorite of George Washington. Ripens in late Aug, early Sept. Has a sweet custard-ish flavor similar to banana, mango, & cantaloupe. Unfortunately, it has a very short shelf-life. I believe it is North America's largest indigenous edible fruit.
Fruits should manifest in tree's 6th or 7th year.
Native to eastern North America and the Midwest.
It is a patch-forming (clonal) understory tree found in well drained, deep, fertile bottomland and hilly upland habitats.

Young trees are susceptible to sun damage the first 2 years. To remedy that I planted Kong Sunflowers in the same area I planted 2 trees. These sunflowers grow so tall so fast, they performed an admiral job of shade protection. Being self seeders, the sunflowers returned to fulfill said duty the following year.

It's been 6 years and I'm still waiting...Flowered and fruited years 7 and 8. (Updated fall 2013).

Another positive about the Paw Paw is that it is the exclusive food source for the larvae of the Zebra Swallowtail butterfly. By consuming paw paw the butterflies ingest a chemical that makes them unpalatable to birds and other predators.


My two were planted in an area that received sun most of the day, which is a factor unhealthy to grow paw paws in. To overcome that problem I planted the giant sunflower Kong which grew swiftly to provide shade for the new paw paws. Said sunflower self seeded the area for years providing the necessary relief from the sun.
These days I sometimes almost regret planting those trees because they try to establish a colony by dropping a lot of seed bearing fruit that subsequently germinates without fail. They also send up new trees from underground runners; it can be a pretty aggressive
plant.
The only time I've ever seen a zebra swallowtail BF was when those trees were growing up. Seeing that zebras elevated that day to Signature Status.
The flower can be quite the visual delight (in spite of it's disreputable odor) blooming early in the spring on bare limbs. Here's one of my favorite pics related to gardening -
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
[Last edited by jmorth - Jul 4, 2017 12:56 AM (+)]
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Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
Seed Starter Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
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DavidLMO
Jul 4, 2017 7:21 PM CST
Thumbs up

Thanks for that info.
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: Christine
North East Texas (Zone 7b)
Herbs Seed Starter Tomato Heads Vegetable Grower Organic Gardener Native Plants and Wildflowers
Canning and food preservation Hummingbirder Birds Butterflies Dragonflies Bee Lover
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wildflowers
Jul 5, 2017 9:15 AM CST
Yes, thank you both for all of the info about the Paw Paw tree. I was thinking under story tree was right but then was reading different. I'm going to plant them (this fall) just inside the edge of the forest, I'm thinking on the east side so they will get some morning sun. Hoping for the best! Thumbs up Thumbs up

May your life be like a wildflower, growing freely in the beauty and joy of each day --Native American Proverb

[Last edited by wildflowers - Jul 5, 2017 10:10 AM (+)]
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Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Seed Starter Dragonflies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Frogs and Toads Garden Procrastinator Cottage Gardener
Birds Annuals Hummingbirder Region: Indiana Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Native Plants and Wildflowers
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jimard8
Jul 5, 2017 1:17 PM CST
I keep losing this thread
another monarch today . a far photo
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In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
Seed Starter Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
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DavidLMO
Jul 5, 2017 10:14 PM CST
I have 2 3rd or 4th Monarch instars indoors. Found two teeny first instars (~ 1.8th inch) today on Common. Been watching since I found the eggs ~ a week ago.

Found the cats by looking for small holes on the tops of the leaves. Works. Thumbs up

I am seeing so few Butterflies this year. Quite sad.

Hoping for Swallowtails of some sort and check host plants daily. No joy.
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
Hi Everybody!! Let us talk native.
Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Butterflies Garden Ideas: Master Level Forum moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Birds Cat Lover
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frostweed
Jul 6, 2017 6:33 AM CST
@david, I feel your pain about the lack of butterflies. Sad
Wildflowers are the Smiles of Nature.
Gardening with Texas Native Plants and Wildflowers.
central Illinois
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Photo Contest Winner: 2017
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jmorth
Jul 6, 2017 9:24 AM CST
Azure on clover
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Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
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joannakat
Jul 6, 2017 10:58 AM CST
DARN! I almost got a picture of a butterfly today! But instead, I just ended up stamping my foot and talking to myself outloud in a frustrated tone. Well, actually, I was kinda begging the BFs to come back and stay in one place for a moment.... Whistling

I've seen several of these out here lately--they seem to like my petunias enough to land for a moment, but never stay. If I describe them, maybe you all can help me ID them?

They're smaller than a monarch, but not a small BF by any description. They look like large, chocolate-brown skippers. When their wings are closed, you can see a splash of silver-white, it's a small spot and looks like a brushstroke. If I were to divide the area of the upright wing into quadrants, I would place it at the top of the rear, lower one. It sometimes catches the sun and shines a bit. I can't tell if there might be other colors because every time I approach them, they fly off Sad

I'd love to know what these are. I hope my description isn't too vague.

Thank You! if you try!
AKA Joey.
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Seed Starter Dragonflies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Frogs and Toads Garden Procrastinator Cottage Gardener
Birds Annuals Hummingbirder Region: Indiana Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Native Plants and Wildflowers
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jimard8
Jul 6, 2017 11:04 AM CST
Silver Spotted Skipper
or perhaps , a Checkered Skipper ? both are kind of large sometimes
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure

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