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Utah (Zone 7a)
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SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 9:54 AM CST
I don't think this blossom is Cherokee Sunset.
Utah (Zone 7a)
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SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 9:57 AM CST
This is Black Eyed Susan Cherokee Sunset I'm sure...




Name: Deb
Pacific NW (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Deer Ferns Herbs Dragonflies
Spiders! Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry Birds Fruit Growers Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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Bonehead
Jul 8, 2017 9:58 AM CST
Definitely appears to be two different blooms in the database -- similarly colored, but one is a flat single type bloom and the other is a fluffy double. Many photos of both types.

EDIT: But wait -- Bluestone Perennials describes it as semi-double or double, so perhaps they are in fact both correct. It also self-seeds, so perhaps subsequent generations appear a bit differently.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
[Last edited by Bonehead - Jul 8, 2017 10:07 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1496246 (3)
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
Charter ATP Member Annuals Echinacea Vegetable Grower Hybridizer Tomato Heads
Garden Photography Birds Cut Flowers Foliage Fan Houseplants Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
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Paul2032
Jul 8, 2017 10:34 AM CST
Google Cherokee Sunset and you will find many pictures that are fully double........
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Name: Deb
Pacific NW (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Deer Ferns Herbs Dragonflies
Spiders! Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry Birds Fruit Growers Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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Bonehead
Jul 8, 2017 10:50 AM CST
Which brings us to the 'if it's on the internet it must be true' dilemma! Out of curiosity, I did search for this cultivar and found the first several result pages were all commercial nurseries, which I don't particularly trust as reliable sources. That said, it does appear they all agree that this plant can be single, semi-double, or double. I was rather trying to find some more scientific explanation for the variation in form, but was unable to quickly locate anything. Perhaps the data details could be edited to clarify the variation, and/or those who actually have this plant can add a comment regarding their experience with it. In any event, it is a gorgeous bloom.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
Charter ATP Member Annuals Echinacea Vegetable Grower Hybridizer Tomato Heads
Garden Photography Birds Cut Flowers Foliage Fan Houseplants Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
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Paul2032
Jul 8, 2017 10:52 AM CST
Some of my pictures were taken and one of my favorite nurseries, ID came from the labels Shrug!
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Utah (Zone 7a)
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SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 11:04 AM CST
https://www.bluestoneperennial...
Utah (Zone 7a)
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SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 11:08 AM CST
They are double...

They have two and a half layers.., of petals... but they are certainly not a Pom Pom flower.

I just purchased one this morning...






Utah (Zone 7a)
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SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 11:12 AM CST
At no time does this pretty Double Blossom look like a Pom Pom to me...
😂😂

Let me know if I'm wrong.

I think the mods need to take a look at the pics unloaded on the species and clean it up.

Thumb of 2017-07-08/SpringGreenThumb/497b73



Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
Charter ATP Member Annuals Echinacea Vegetable Grower Hybridizer Tomato Heads
Garden Photography Birds Cut Flowers Foliage Fan Houseplants Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
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Paul2032
Jul 8, 2017 11:12 AM CST
I hope you noticed that others have added semi-double and double pictures. Later in the day I will delete the questionable pictures. Hope you find that satisfactory......
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Utah (Zone 7a)
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SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 11:17 AM CST
I did not intend to offend at all.
It was extremely confusing to look this plant up... on Garden.org

Many of the pics don't look at all like the plant I just purchased even the budding flower looks different.

I rely on this sight to give me the information I need whenever possible.


Thumb of 2017-07-08/SpringGreenThumb/cdc408

Utah (Zone 7a)
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SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 11:22 AM CST
Paul2032 said:I hope you noticed that others have added semi-double and double pictures. Later in the day I will delete the questionable pictures. Hope you find that satisfactory......


Yes... and single blossoms too.

😂😂.
Name: Danita
GA (Zone 7b)
Charter ATP Member Forum moderator Hummingbirder Salvias Butterflies Birds
Plant Identifier Vegetable Grower Container Gardener Seed Starter Cat Lover Region: Georgia
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Danita
Jul 8, 2017 11:23 AM CST
Rudbeckia hirta 'Cherokee Sunset' is a seed strain and not a clonal cultivar. It produces a variety of colors and forms, as described.

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/flo...
http://all-americaselections.o...
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
Charter ATP Member Annuals Echinacea Vegetable Grower Hybridizer Tomato Heads
Garden Photography Birds Cut Flowers Foliage Fan Houseplants Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
Image
Paul2032
Jul 8, 2017 11:25 AM CST
Parks, Hirts, Johny's Seeds and others all show pictures of Double and semi-double flowers and described them as such.....perhaps you should call their mistakes to their attention.
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Utah (Zone 7a)
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SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 11:32 AM CST
Ok... maybe you want include in the flower descriptions?

When I look at the pictures I definitely seeing a variety of different cultivars.

Utah (Zone 7a)
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SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 11:36 AM CST
I see doubles and singles in many sizes and shapes...

No need to be offended. Any person out there who is not familiar with this species is gonna be extremely confused when looking at the database.

The flowers are different colors, sizes, and shapes. (Different seedling species).

There should be a notation explaining it as such. Don't you think?


[Last edited by SpringGreenThumb - Jul 8, 2017 11:39 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1496338 (16)
Utah (Zone 7a)
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SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 11:50 AM CST
My response..., is perfectly normal...

And it's the same response that many folks trying to look this flower up will have.

(Looks like anything goes.)

I would t doubt for a minute things get tagged wrong at the Nursery ...

Even your favorite nursery.... and Ive seen online stores (Even the Hybridizers themselves) and catalogs put the wrong pictures up many times.... or photo shop blossoms onto stems.

They are trying to make a sale... and even then they will send you something that doesn't even resemble their picture.


That's why you come to Gardrn.org to find out the truth about the plant and check the watchdog on the retailers.

This problem is not even isolated to
'Cherokee Sunset' Rudbeckia.'

😀😀😀

Name: Danita
GA (Zone 7b)
Charter ATP Member Forum moderator Hummingbirder Salvias Butterflies Birds
Plant Identifier Vegetable Grower Container Gardener Seed Starter Cat Lover Region: Georgia
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Danita
Jul 8, 2017 11:52 AM CST
As I said before, Rudbeckia hirta 'Cherokee Sunset' is a seed strain and not a clonal cultivar (one produced from asexual propagation.) It is a seed strain that produces a wide variety of flower forms and colors. Each seed in a pack of 'Cherokee Sunset' seeds can produce a plant that has flowers very different looking than the other seeds in the same pack. Although most seed strains are a little more consistent, this particular seed strain ('Cherokee Sunset') really is that variable.

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/flo...
http://all-americaselections.o...
Utah (Zone 7a)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 12:17 PM CST
Paul2032 said:Parks, Hirts, Johny's Seeds and others all show pictures of Double and semi-double flowers and described them as such.....perhaps you should call their mistakes to their attention.


I'm sure glad that senior members of Garden.org can respond to a posted comment "Doesn't look like..."
without being offended or punitive toward the obvious and truthful comment... (Just stating the obvious)
It's nice to know we can have a conversation and respond sensibly to confusion instead of responding with sarcasm or meanness to stupid people like me who wasn't born with this knowledge. 😊

Thank you!

That's why I love everyone in this community! ❤️

[Last edited by SpringGreenThumb - Jul 8, 2017 12:44 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1496373 (19)
Utah (Zone 7a)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Jul 8, 2017 12:23 PM CST
Danita said:As I said before, Rudbeckia hirta 'Cherokee Sunset' is a seed strain and not a clonal cultivar (one produced from asexual propagation.) It is a seed strain that produces a wide variety of flower forms and colors. Each seed in a pack of 'Cherokee Sunset' seeds can produce a plant that has flowers very different looking than the other seeds in the same pack. Although most seed strains are a little more consistent, this particular seed strain ('Cherokee Sunset') really is that variable.

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/flo...
http://all-americaselections.o...


Thankyou for the sensible replies.

I do think it would make sense to explain this on the plant descriptions.... most varieties we are not allowed to post the seedlings to the variety because they are genetically different.

Obviously there are exceptions. ❤️👍🏻

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