Daylilies forum: prolifs revisited

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Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Jul 15, 2017 12:41 PM CST
I know a lot is said about proliferations already, but I have still some questions.. Whistling

I know that certain DL's are more prone to making prolifs that others.
Roswitha, Margo Reed Indeed and Wilson Spider for instance, make them every year (well, all 3 years that I've been growing DL's Hilarious! ) and others will probably never make them.

Now my questions Whistling :
- is it something you look for when considering buying a new DL, as it is an easy way to get more plants of the same cultivar?
(I planted 2 prolifs of Margo last year and they both flowered this Summer! Thumbs up )
- are the plants that easily make prolifs also the plants that multiply rapidly anyhow? (and so is growing prolifs a waste of time..?)
- I notice that several of my seedlings are making prolifs. Do seedlings make them easier than mature plants?
- will the seedlings that make prolifs now be more prone to make them later on as well?
- is making prolifs stressfull/strenuous for the motherplant and would it be better to remove them if you aren't interested in planting the prolifs?


thanks!
Mayo
a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 15, 2017 1:13 PM CST
Those are all good questions and very timely. I was just thinking about proliferations because here it is that time of year. I harvested three already, all of them by accident. I was pulling dead scapes to check the height, branching and bud count and accidently pulled a scape from 'Victorian Princess that had two proliferations', then today I was doing the same for 'Peacock Maiden' and pulled a scape with a proliferation on it.
I never consider proliferations when buying a plant, there is just not enough info that I have found to make it worth trying to research a plant for prolifs.
I do have some plants that make a ton of proliferations and multiply fans fairly fast also. Some of my NOIDs make so many prolifs I have learned to just ignore them. Even on the plants that multiply fairly rapidly I still often like to harvest a proliferation because it is so easy and potted up it make a great gift plant.
I can't answer any of the seedling related questions, but I would love to hear from some people who have experience with them.
I have been told that there is very little if any stress put on a plant when growing proliferations, I don't have any scientific studies to back that up.
This plant makes lots of prolifs every year, it is a NOID of course.
Thumb of 2017-07-15/Seedfork/906629
Here are the two from 'Victorian Princess' I just planted (pushed down in the mud).
Thumb of 2017-07-15/Seedfork/e2fccc

Oh, I have a question to that occured to me today: should you cut back the foliage on prolifs.? I never have and they have done fine, but it just seems with such a small developing root system (if any roots at all) it would help the plant get established.
Edited: I just noticed that I actually did trim back the foliage on one of the prolifs, maybe subconsciously I knew I should.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Jul 15, 2017 1:16 PM (+)]
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Name: Diana
Lincoln, NE (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Region: Nebraska Organic Gardener Dog Lover Bookworm
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ShakespearesGarden
Jul 15, 2017 2:21 PM CST
Great thread start Mayo! Thumbs up

Last year I saw my first prolif on Sallie Farley, and it bloomed (2 total) this year on a dinky little fan. I'm amazed it had enough energy to do so.

This year, I have three cultivars making proliferations. And I'm thrilled to see two of them as they are cultivars less than a year old in my garden, so the increase is welcome. One is on a gift plant that I am meh about (everyone else loves it), the other is a plant I really like.

Answers to questions:
-- I don't consider a plant's propensity to make proliferations when purchasing. I don't know if hybridizers record much data on proliferations, guess I've never looked...
-- I know that one of this year's proliferations is on a cultivar (Lullaby Baby) that increases at a reasonable pace, but the prolif is on a set of fans that I transplanted last fall. The remaining clumps don't have any prolifs.
-- I think Larry (got it right this time!) is right about prolifs not stressing the mother plant. Blooming generally takes more energy than green growth if recall from my crop science classes is correct.
-- I did notice that all of this year's prolifs are on plants that did not set seed pods...
-- I didn't cut back the foliage on last year's prolif, but it seemed to be okay this spring. As Larry brought up, I can see why we ought to trim them back, treat them much like we'd treat new purchases...

I don't know enough to hazard a guess about the other questions. I'm hoping the more knowledgeable will add their two cents...

Scout's motto: Be Prepared...
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 15, 2017 2:42 PM CST
Let me add after reading Diana post that often I do have seed pods on the same plants that have proliferations. I am just not able to recall any plant off hand that does not multiply fairly rapidly that also puts out proliferations, just by memory all the ones I can think of that make a lot of proliferations also multiply fans rapidly!
Name: Ken
East S.F. Bay Area (Zone 9a)
Region: California
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CaliFlowers
Jul 15, 2017 7:08 PM CST
I'd imagine that a proliferation probably "pays its own way" as far as stress on the main plant is concerned, since it's essentially more leaf surface.

I'd trim them off only if I felt they detracted from the appearance of the plant.
Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Jul 19, 2017 4:52 PM CST
I've discovered some prolifs-to-be on several scapes this afternoon Lovey dubby

Thumb of 2017-07-19/Mayo62/1d2974 Margo Reed Indeed
Thumb of 2017-07-19/Mayo62/6cce7d Loth Lorien
Thumb of 2017-07-19/Mayo62/efb8be Boitzer Green Spagetti

I had an 'aha!-moment' and have come up with the following theory:
(excuse me if I use the wrong terms)
All scapes have bracts on them, right?

The AHS says: "The presence of a bract on the scape of a young plant may indicate that the plant has the potential for producing additional branching on new scapes in succeeding years".

uhh.... ?? Confused

To me there seem to be 3 possibilities:

a. nothing happens
Thumb of 2017-07-19/Mayo62/d6f84c

b. a branch of the scape grows in the bract
Thumb of 2017-07-19/Mayo62/16d6a8

c. a proloferation grows in the bract
Thumb of 2017-07-19/Mayo62/82ceb4
Thumb of 2017-07-19/Mayo62/bea477
Thumb of 2017-07-19/Mayo62/1db524

So.. is there a grow point on the spot where a bract is? Thumbs up
I don't know what causes the different results.. is it just chance?

I also wonder: if I were to put some of that whatchamacallit powder (used to induce root growth?) on that grow point.. would that force a sideshoot or prolif to grow? Hilarious!

What do you all think? Big Grin

Mayo
a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 19, 2017 5:37 PM CST
I think the rooting hormone stuff makes roots grow. So if you put some on a prolif that was forming roots, it might make it grow roots faster, I don't know. I don't think it would have any effect on it growing a prolif or a branch, just my thoughts.
The growths are so small I can't really tell if they are going to be a branch or not, remember a branch must have at least 2 buds. Can you see something that tips you off to them becoming branches or perhaps profis yet? I remember having a few plants that I thought were growing branches and they just ended up being long (stems?) with a single bud.
Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Jul 20, 2017 2:43 AM CST
haha, so the hormone powder is not a good idea!
It was just a thought Big Grin

The small growths in my photo's are definitely going to be prolifs as they appeared on scapes that are almost done flowering Thumbs up

What is a 'branch' with only 1 bud called.. a sideshoot?
I have several cultivars with (real) branches quite low on the scape, always on the spot of a bract
(if you don't pay attention they appear to be seperate scapes!)

I rather liked that because the flowers never crowd each other Thumbs up
But perhaps it is considered a flaw..?


Mayo
a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Name: Nikki
Yorkshire, UK (Zone 8a)
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Scatterbrain
Jul 20, 2017 2:50 AM CST
What do you do with prolifs?

I get them every year on Priscilla's Dream. How do you get them to make a new plant, do you just cut them off the scape? If so, when and where do you cut? And then what do you do with it?

Name: Nancy
Bowling Green Kentucky (Zone 6b)
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alilyfan
Jul 20, 2017 5:26 AM CST
I have a couple of plants that do produce prolifs every year, and yes, they do seem to be plants that multiply well anyway. If I have a new plant though, I am happy to harvest any prolifs. Really easy when you get nice prolifs that seem to develop roots right on the plant, & I've gotten to the point unless it is a coveted plant, I ignore the ones I have to punier ones. Seedlings seem to produce prolifs a lot.
Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Jul 20, 2017 5:32 AM CST
Usually I leave them on the scape as long as that is green (= if there are buds, flowers or a seedpod on the scape).

If it gets too big or the scape is dying I cut it off right above the prolif and about 4 inches below the prolif. I than put it in a glass of water (refresh every day) and wait until it has grown enough roots to plant. Or, if it has already developed enough roots while on the scape, I cut it off right above and below the prolif and plant it.

I know that other people put prolifs in the ground right away, roots or no, but this way worked very well for me last year so I'm sticking to it Whistling
Guess I'm still enough of a newbie that I don't want to risk loosing any new plants! Hilarious!

So far I have scapes in Loth Lorien, Roswitha, Wilson Spider, Lake Norman Spider, Mars Attacks, Margo Reed Indeed, Protostar, Alien Concept, Starsearch, Boitzer Crying Hero, Boitzer Lilac Diva, Boitzer Green Spagetti and 8 seedlings, but I haven't checked every plant yet.
I put a tall stake with a ribbon attached near every scape with a prolif or seedpod (2 different colors) My gardens look like they are having a party...

Rolling on the floor laughing
Mayo
a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Name: Sue Petruske
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
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petruske
Jul 21, 2017 11:29 PM CST
Here is a picture of some prolifs I had last year on Sugar Plum Jam. I did put some root tone on the root area (didn't know if it would help but figured it wouldn't hurt). I would liked to have kept them on the scape longer but it was mid/late September (in zone 5a) and thought I better get them in the ground to try to get those tiny roots growing. I almost NEVER have very much of a root system on prolifs. Maybe because of the shorter growing season in my zone??? Anyway...I was shocked to see one of these actually bloom this year.

2016-September (one bloomed in 2017-July):
Thumb of 2017-07-22/petruske/4ed65f

[Last edited by petruske - Jul 21, 2017 11:30 PM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 22, 2017 5:35 AM CST
I am in zone 8b and my prolifs seldom have more than nubs for roots. I have some fairly large prolifs on 'Victorian Princess' and I want to see if a better root system develops on them while they are still on the scapes.
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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pirl
Jul 22, 2017 7:23 AM CST
Nubs is 99% of what I've gotten in the past. They grow just fine when I plant them.
Name: Marilyn, aka "Poly"
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
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Polymerous
Jul 22, 2017 3:01 PM CST
Very interesting thread!

I'm afraid that I don't have anything substantial to contribute. I will say that I consider proliferations more of a nuisance than not, partly because they look unsightly, partly because it's then a matter of what to do? I feel guilty if I dispose of them, but I don't necessarily want more of that plant.

Fortunately, I rarely see them these days; I guess my current gang of daylilies is not inclined to profliferate.

But then there's this recent acquisition... which produced one stalk with NO BLOOMS, but a proliferation! D'Oh!

Thumb of 2017-07-22/Polymerous/82adb7

It's daylily season!
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
pirl
Jul 22, 2017 4:59 PM CST
Guilt does come into the picture when we have far more proliferations than we can possibly use.
Name: Diana
Lincoln, NE (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Region: Nebraska Organic Gardener Dog Lover Bookworm
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ShakespearesGarden
Jul 22, 2017 11:04 PM CST
There's always gifting them to unsuspecting neighbors, schools, community gardens, churches and temples.

Scout's motto: Be Prepared...
Name: Arlene
Southold, Long Island, NY (Zone 7a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Houseplants Garden Ideas: Level 1 Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
pirl
Jul 23, 2017 7:39 AM CST
So many friends, and our church, have benefitted from many daylily donations over the last 20 years. Now, in the week I turn 76, I prefer taking care of my gardens and not spending days packaging and shipping either prolif's or plants. Neighbors and friends have been the recipients so often and I've even left them in bags (with blooms showing) at the end of the driveway, with a "free" sign.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 25, 2017 12:21 PM CST
Last year I grew some proliferations from 'Carlotta' and I got my first bloom from it today.
Thumb of 2017-07-25/Seedfork/1eaa1d

Name: David McCausland
Horseheads, NY (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Region: New York Enjoys or suffers cold winters Plant and/or Seed Trader Hybridizer Hostas
Bedmaker
Jul 25, 2017 6:59 PM CST
It has been an interesting year. I usually have prolifs on multiple plants, but this year I really haven't seen any. The only thing that comes close is the following picture.
Thumb of 2017-07-26/Bedmaker/25831c
This is STARMAN'S QUEST and instead of a traditional proliferation, I have 4 scapes and one bud on the end of each scape. I have never seen this before in my 22 years of growing these cursed uh lovely plants.

I wonder is proliferation production is related to the amount of water the plant receives. We have had an unusually wet spring and summer. This is just shot is the dark.

David

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