Adeniums forum: Can this plant be saved?

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EscondidoCal
Jul 16, 2017 1:03 PM CST
We bought 2 adeniums with large caudexes ~7yrs ago, and they have bloomed beautifully each year.
I have been careful to only water 1x week during growing season, and bring them into the house when
it's too cold.
I was horrified to see one of them have an advanced rot on the caudex yesterday.....I feel so bad! D'Oh!
The other is perfect so far.
I scooped out as much of the wet mush as I could, and sprayed inside & out with Physan, but the caudex is so
damaged, I doubt it will save the plant.
Should I cut off the top, let it dry a bit, and re-pot in sterilized mix?
Can it sprout again from the base if I cut out the rotted middle?
Is the other plant Ok in that size pot or should it be repotted when it goes dormant?
Thank you for your help! Smiling

20min later.....just took a pic of the whole plant......the rotted part is much drier in 24hr, and the leaves are green and it's still blooming, so
I have great hope it will heal itsself, but would greatly appreciate any help.

Here are pics of the damaged plant:
Thumb of 2017-07-16/cal9/d2755a

Thumb of 2017-07-16/cal9/050f52

Thumb of 2017-07-16/cal9/a06884

And the healthy plant:
Thumb of 2017-07-16/cal9/81de7f

The sick plant 24hr after debridement surgery and application of Physan.
Thumb of 2017-07-16/cal9/66b3ef




[Last edited by cal9 - Jul 16, 2017 1:29 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1503697 (1)
Name: Audrey
Central Texas (Zone 8a)
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Esperanza
Jul 16, 2017 1:34 PM CST
uh oh... sorry about the rot. That does look like it goes further in. If it was mine I would take it out of the soil and keep cutting until white healthy tissue is only showing. If there is not enough to salvage you could cut the top stems off and root them. I have also seen where people save large pieces of root to use later for grafting. Get all of the brown rotten gunk out of it completely and then see what you have left to work with. Good luck and please keep us posted.

EscondidoCal
Jul 16, 2017 5:01 PM CST
" If it was mine I would take it out of the soil and keep cutting until white healthy tissue is only showing. If there is not enough to salvage you could cut the top stems off and root them."

That was my take as well, though I'll wait a few days to see if there's any
sign of healing before doing a radical cut down.

I learned a lot today, e.g. that they can get sunburned if rotated from their normal position.
I did that a few weeks ago, and maybe that allowed the rot to get started (?)
Thank You!


Name: Audrey
Central Texas (Zone 8a)
Organic Gardener Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses Butterflies Hummingbirder Photo Contest Winner: 2015
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Esperanza
Jul 16, 2017 5:50 PM CST
That might be the case. I had a whole flat full of 3 month old seedlings fry in one day from moving them too fast in the sun. They were in the sun before but I changed the position of western exposure. Less than one day and one side of all of them turned to mush. Thumbs down

EscondidoCal
Jul 17, 2017 10:04 AM CST
Esperanza said: That might be the case. I had a whole flat full of 3 month old seedlings fry in one day from moving them too fast in the sun. They were in the sun before but I changed the position of western exposure. Less than one day and one side of all of them turned to mush. Thumbs down
Zheeesh! That hurts.
Going to Home Depot today to look for a router bit for my drill to get out the decay (like a bad tooth).
I think it will work better than a spoon....just need to drill down to the good tissue.

Will let you know how it goes. ;

Later.... just bought a new router bit (the one on the far right in the pic below), and it works well with my electric drill (not so well with a rechargeable drill with lower rpms). The other router bits don't work very well, though the larger drill bit may work.
But will have to wait till I have good lighting tomorrow morning......to bright to see inside the caudex.
I put the plant in the shade in the meantime.
Thumb of 2017-07-17/cal9/7ea154

This gives a whole new meaning to "root canal". =P

I'm using Physan as an antifungal on it, and haven't seen any negative info about using it with adeniums.
BTW, found this 7.5mb 191page pdf on rare plants from South Africa that looks worth reading.

sabonet-report-no-36-growing-rare-plants.pdf
Sorry, couldn't post the link yet as I'm still a newbie. ;)




[Last edited by cal9 - Jul 17, 2017 6:06 PM (+)]
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Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
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tarev
Jul 17, 2017 7:31 PM CST
Hello cal9, sorry to see the damage there. I think there is still good potential for it to heal, just got to keep it dry for now and let it callus. Just remove to good tissue whatever is rotting and make fungicide application, and allow to dry and callus. It may take a few days to a week, depending on your area's temperature and humidity conditions.

It may take a bit longer for it to totally dry out, so don't water for now. You may lose some flowers or leaves but as long as the rest of the plant stays firm and that mushy part not spreading then it should mend.

Later if it had dried out nicely, repot in a new gritty mix, container with drain holes and keep that injured part above soil line. Position to part shade till you see new growth again.
[Last edited by tarev - Jul 17, 2017 7:31 PM (+)]
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EscondidoCal
Jul 17, 2017 11:21 PM CST
Thanks Tarev.....I was very upset to see the extensive rotting, but feel confident now
it will survive after it gets cleaned up and given a chance to heal.

It may even have more character now.
I will be much more careful and observant in the future!

Also think I'll invest in a few new plants, too.
What is "gritty mix"? I have some coir, course sand, perlite, peatmoss available.
What do you use?

10min later....just found your secret recipe at this great thread here, "Newby - Best Potting Soil?"
"I use cactus soil and then I mix in pumice, a little compost, akadama and kanuma soil."
I love mixing custom soils, so will try yours, as well as getting some chicken grit.....we have 2 local feed stores that I'm sure will
have it.

Just checked Amazon and the bonsai soils are plentiful. Does it matter which brand?




[Last edited by cal9 - Jul 17, 2017 11:48 PM (+)]
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Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
Cat Lover Houseplants Plays in the sandbox Region: California Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
Composter Cactus and Succulents Dragonflies Hummingbirder Amaryllis Container Gardener
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tarev
Jul 18, 2017 8:26 AM CST
Hi EscondidoCal, nice new name Smiling

I don't use coir, or peat moss for the succulents, it might hold too much water for the roots. I don't add coarse sand either, it has a tendency overtime to compact below, so it will suffocate the roots. I think the coir and peat moss works well for the more typical tropical plants that loves to be kept on the moist side.

During summer, I find the Adeniums love frequent watering here in my area, but still within the day, it has to drain well and go dry.

When you get chicken grit, make sure it is the one that is insoluble crushed granite.

Bonsai soil is okay, though as I said I just use cactus soil, since I also grow other succulents so I just get a big bag from our local HD. I avoid the cactus soil of Miracle Gro, they keep adding water retentive additives in their mix. I much prefer to mix in pumice, or if I don't have them around I use perlite. The difference with the two, perlite may float a bit, so I have to top dress with chicken grit to hold down the media.

Kanuma and akadama often used as part of Japanese bonsai soil. I use it sparingly just because it is not cheap in the long run for me, but I really like how chunky and porous they are, and they change color when wet, so I can visually see if the media is still wet easily, and good air flow around the roots.

Hope your plant recovers well. It will be like its battle scars! At least it is summer time, faster to dry out hopefully on your side and still got a couple more months of growing season before the plant goes dormant in late Fall.

EscondidoCal
Jul 18, 2017 9:29 PM CST
Hi tarev!
Thanks for all the good tips.

Each day I'm learning how much I didn't-but-should-have-
known about adenium culture. Hilarious!



EscondidoCal
Jul 20, 2017 11:03 AM CST
After drilling as much of the decay without going too far, I flushed it
out with the hose, pulled (gently) out of the pot which was now soaked,
rinsed off all the old soil, sprayed inside the wound, the outside, and the
exposed roots with Physan, and set it on a metal chair (expanded metal)
to dry overnight.

Here is the plant, pot, and the drill I used to give it the "root canal".
It was very stressful both of us (the plant & me).
Thumb of 2017-07-20/EscondidoCal/2452dd

Should I trim off the smaller roots and let it dry more before I re-pot?
There are 2 places (green) that looked scuffed and may be at risk of fungus(?)
Thumb of 2017-07-20/EscondidoCal/20afc7

Overall the roots appear free of rot.....they coiled on the bottom, and the piece of
screen I used to cover the drainage hole is tightly bound to the roots.
Ok to leave it?

Should I keep it in the same pot or get a larger one? It looks like there is ~1.5" clearance as is.
I'll re-pot it later today unless you think I should let it alone for a few days or a week(?)
Thumb of 2017-07-20/EscondidoCal/d2908e

Thanks! Group hug
Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
Cat Lover Houseplants Plays in the sandbox Region: California Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
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tarev
Jul 20, 2017 11:53 AM CST
Hello EscondidoCal, I would leave alone those smaller roots. As for the scuffed area, leave it alone, just let it dry. If you want you can very lightly apply cinnamon on it. I know, I keep saying leave it alone, but that is your recourse for now, it has to dry up properly. Give it a few more days. Actually the drying up time for that scuffed area will be a long while. But as long as there is good airflow it should be okay. What is the level of humidity on your side by the way? My area is much drier since we are more inland so my dry out time here is faster.

I really do not pot my Adeniums too big and deep. I go for shallow and wide. That way it is easier for the roots to dry out fast. Though it does require stepped up watering during the very hot summers, still that root zone needs to dry as quick as it can.

I understand how stressful it is..I was like that too when I first pruned branches and roots while it was dormant. That is the only time I had to cut off some of the smaller roots, since I want to fit back my Adenium in its quirky well draining container.

EscondidoCal
Jul 20, 2017 3:48 PM CST
Hi Tarev,

thanks for the good info. I'll follow your recommendations, i.e. to let it dry out more first, and not
trim the smaller roots.

What do you think of this pot for it? It's ~6" deep from the rim, but much wider.
Thumb of 2017-07-20/EscondidoCal/952eb3
It looks like the roots were 5" deep in the other pot......should I raise it and inch or two,
or have it as deep as before?
Thumb of 2017-07-20/EscondidoCal/36b223

I'm not sure what the growing zone is here....we're on a hill overlooking Lake Hodges,
get a good breeze. The humidity has been unusually high due
to the monsoonal moisture lately, but otherwise on the dry side.

I'll get some fresh cactus mix (not Miracle Grow), and granite grit if I can find it.
I don't know about the pumice.....will have to call the local nurseries, or get it
from Amazon.

I have some large perlite for commercial use with a little peat moss in it that
I was trying to root some protea cuttings in (didn't work), but can I add that
to the cactus mix? I have some aquarium gravel I could put on top of that
to keep the perlite from floating. (?)

Do you use Physan for antifungal? I got some from an orchid grower that
used it on all his orchids, and to keep the algae off the floor.
It's basically Bactine on steroids.







[Last edited by EscondidoCal - Jul 20, 2017 6:55 PM (+)]
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Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
Cat Lover Houseplants Plays in the sandbox Region: California Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
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tarev
Jul 20, 2017 4:23 PM CST
That container looks good, just make sure it has drain holes. Yes, lift the plant a bit higher when you repot, preferably with that part with injury above soil line if possible. You may have to stake the plant a bit till it anchors itself again.

I have not used Physan, but it is indeed being used often with orchids. My immediate fungicide at home is cinnamon.

I don't use peat moss on my Adeniums, though I do mix in very well some compost with my cacti mix and pumice every year towards early Spring.

Nice to know you are near the lake! You then have better humidity than my area. So just be mindful of watering, the container you have is glazed, so it may take just a little while for soil to dry out after thorough watering. But you are growing it outdoors so the added heat and air flow will help.

EscondidoCal
Jul 20, 2017 7:06 PM CST
tarev said:That container looks good, just make sure it has drain holes. Yes, lift the plant a bit higher when you repot, preferably with that part with injury above soil line if possible. You may have to stake the plant a bit till it anchors itself again.

It has a nice big drain hole.....I usually put a piece of screen over it, but may use a convex piece of broken pottery instead, as the
screen can get plugged with roots, or in this case, become part of the roots!

I have not used Physan, but it is indeed being used often with orchids. My immediate fungicide at home is cinnamon.

Thanks, that's a new one on me......I love cinnamon, so will put some on the scuffed parts, and in the wound. And make some cinnamon toast. ;)

I don't use peat moss on my Adeniums, though I do mix in very well some compost with my cacti mix and pumice every year towards early Spring.

What kind of compost? Home made?
What brand of cacti mix?
How often do you repot?
How many adeniums do you have?
Pics? Smiling


Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
Cat Lover Houseplants Plays in the sandbox Region: California Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
Composter Cactus and Succulents Dragonflies Hummingbirder Amaryllis Container Gardener
Image
tarev
Jul 20, 2017 7:35 PM CST
Just home made compost, we got lots of leaves from city trees here so I have a double bin composting bin tumbler.
Thumb of 2017-07-21/tarev/ac81cd

Currently I am using this cacti mix from ebstone. Before there is also that bag of palm and cacti soil I find at Home Depot.
Thumb of 2017-07-21/tarev/af53aa
and I finally found a good bag of pumice from one of the succulent nurseries I visited last month:
Thumb of 2017-07-21/tarev/009948
Usually I only manage to get a very small bag of pumice from the local big box stores, they do not seem to carry big bags.

I only have two Adeniums here, lack of space for me, especially when it is time to hide them indoors, so I just cherish these two very well Big Grin
Photo in early July this year: been with me since Fall of 2010
Thumb of 2017-07-21/tarev/ef8f51
Current photo:
Thumb of 2017-07-21/tarev/d839ca Thumb of 2017-07-21/tarev/61a28e

And this is the other one, this one has not bloomed yet for me, but it is busy making its caudex fat, so I don't mind, I want it to really grow very well first:
First got it around July 2012
Thumb of 2017-07-21/tarev/74d13c
Current photo:
Thumb of 2017-07-21/tarev/25f191





EscondidoCal
Jul 21, 2017 2:18 PM CST
Thanks Tarev! Great info & pics. Thumbs up

The wound is dry, but there is still significant amount of dark
areas. Should I keep whittling till I get all of it out? It's not
soft and wet like it was originally.

If it starts drooping, should I trim off some of the shoots
and root them? I.e. I don't see how the cambium can still service all of the
top growth, though so far, it's still blooming, and hasn't dropped any leaves. Crossing Fingers! Crossing Fingers!

My other adenium has the same bloom as yours.
It seems to be too big for the pot it's in, but don't want
to mess with it.
Thumb of 2017-07-21/EscondidoCal/234ff4

Though maybe should re-pot? (btw, I never leave the pot next to the chiminea
when there's a fire in it.....if it's that cold outside, the plant is in the house ;)
Thumb of 2017-07-21/EscondidoCal/6c9dab

Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
Cat Lover Houseplants Plays in the sandbox Region: California Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
Composter Cactus and Succulents Dragonflies Hummingbirder Amaryllis Container Gardener
Image
tarev
Jul 21, 2017 2:43 PM CST
I think you can just let the injured plant remain as is. Eventually towards late Fall to early winter it will slow down and go dormant, so those leaves will fall off on its own as it rests. It is a matter of preference if you want to trim the branches, but do understand those branches will not form a fat caudex, it will remain slim. Unlike if it is seed grown from the beginning then it will make the fat caudex.

Your 2nd Adenium is so pretty! Lovey dubby Lovey dubby I think it still is okay with its current container. Sometimes people just wait till the plant breaks the pot on its own.

With your 2nd Adenium you could raise the caudex a bit during early Spring and maintain same container add some compost and gritty stuff. It will help you see further the lovely caudex that has continued to form below soil line and at the same time check the condition of the root system. Then you can also decide if you want to trim the branches a bit, in case it is growing beyond what you like.

EscondidoCal
Jul 21, 2017 9:34 PM CST
All good advice. I'll keep a close eye on it for any signs of decay.

I see some people say to put super-glue on the wound or edges?
Have you ever done that?

Your 2nd Adenium is so pretty! Lovey dubby Lovey dubby
Thanks! So's yours. Smiling
I'm considering getting 1 or 2 more from Durham Botanicals in Fla.
They sell some nice specimens for ~$35 ...free shipping? No tax? But you select the actual plant. Thumbs up



Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
Cat Lover Houseplants Plays in the sandbox Region: California Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
Composter Cactus and Succulents Dragonflies Hummingbirder Amaryllis Container Gardener
Image
tarev
Jul 22, 2017 12:56 PM CST
I have never used super glue on them.


Ah! Always fun to go plant shopping Big Grin

EscondidoCal
Jul 22, 2017 4:34 PM CST
Just picked up some cactus mix & pumice from my favorite nursery, El Plantio, in Escondido.
Thumb of 2017-07-22/EscondidoCal/c0d004

I'm going to keep it simple.....just cactus mix & pumice.
How does 4:1 sound? Smiling

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