Daylilies forum: How do you grow daylily seeds/crosses

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Name: Nikki
Yorkshire, UK (Zone 8a)
LA name-Maelstrom
Dog Lover Cat Lover Rabbit Keeper Container Gardener
Scatterbrain
Jul 23, 2017 1:31 AM CST
Thanks to all the useful advice on here Thank You! I have my very first seed pods--what do I do next? When I collect the seeds (when they are ready and assuming I manage not to knock off the pods!) do they need to go in the fridge for a period of cold?

My main problem then is going to be how to germinate them. I can't do them on a windowsill in the living areas as the cats just knock them over and eat them so I have two options:

1) Start them in a basement using an electric propagator and grow lights where the cats can't get to them.

2) Grow them entirely outside (but keeping markers better this time) and know that if they grow they are UK hardy but will take a long time. (The cats are indoor cats and go into the garden under supervision as we are close to a busy road).

Which do you think is the best option for me?

What should I do about growing on/hardening off?

Please let me know about your own set ups and how you all do it, please, including any seed treatment before germination.

Sorry if these seem silly questions--most things I grow from seed I just scatter the seed onto seeding compost in a pot outside and leave them to get on with it as they are mainly annuals and hardy perennials (which is why I now have NOID seedlings from LA seed--oops!)

Thank you Thank You!
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 23, 2017 6:04 AM CST
I always like the option of trying a little of each. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. I have been trying to germinate some seeds outside without any chilling, they have been in the ground for three weeks now and not a single seed has sprouted. Of course the temps here are up in the nineties, so maybe I was expecting too much. I also am putting some in the garden fridge and plan on planting some outside this fall and planting some inside.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Jul 23, 2017 8:28 AM (+)]
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Name: Nikki
Yorkshire, UK (Zone 8a)
LA name-Maelstrom
Dog Lover Cat Lover Rabbit Keeper Container Gardener
Scatterbrain
Jul 23, 2017 6:40 AM CST
Thank you, Larry,

I googled growing daylily seeds and keep reading about 'stratification' but none seemed to use the same method and I got confused. What is stratification exactly and why is it needed? Do you do it for seeds started inside and outside or just inside ones.

Also I have never germinated seeds inside, what do I need to do it i.e. heat, lights,timers? Need to do it inexpensively as I'm on a limited budget. Would an old aquarium or similar work with a grow light?

Name: Diana
Lincoln, NE (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Region: Nebraska Organic Gardener Dog Lover Bookworm
Image
ShakespearesGarden
Jul 23, 2017 8:01 AM CST
Scatterbrain, stratification is exposing the seeds to cool/cold temperatures to break the seed's dormancy. I think a lot of us simply put the seeds in baggies and put them in the fridge for three or more weeks.

Germination can be as simple or complex as you wish. There's an excellent thread on seed starting with sponges. Some people use small cups, pots, or seedling trays with dirt. I think I saw someone use a mason jar with a little water/peroxide mix. I use water and the baggie I stored/received the seeds in. I leave them in a spot that my cats don't frequent.

Thumb of 2017-07-23/ShakespearesGarden/106e19

I'll move them into pots (siblings together) when the root is a bit longer...
Scout's motto: Be Prepared...
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jul 23, 2017 8:32 AM CST
@Scatterbrain - stratification is damp (not wet) chilling to simulate winter. Then you take the seeds out of the fridge to germinate at room temperature (simulating spring). Some people have misinterpreted this to mean they should germinate while still in the fridge, which is not the case.

The purpose of damp chilling is to break seed dormancy. A proportion of daylily seeds may have seed dormancy in which case germination of a whole batch can drag on for weeks or even months without prior stratification, while some will germinate right away whatever you do, or don't do.

For the chilling to work the seeds must not be too dry. That's why people rehydrate them before chilling, or chill them in damp medium like vermiculite or perlite or sand (it is easier to pick the black seeds out of light coloured medium if you don't want to germinate them in it. Chilling internally dry daylily seeds does not break seed dormancy. Chilling should be for 4-6 weeks although you may get away with shorter.

This article from the AHS Daylily Journal may be of interest:

http://www.ctdaylily.com/files...
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Jul 23, 2017 8:37 AM CST
I am trying something new (as always) a cotton ball put in the little zip lock baggie with the seeds all pushed into one tiny corner with the cotton all soaked in a peroxide and water mixture. I saw that somewhere and it appealed to me to try it. The cotton ball is pushed up tight against the seeds to hold them in place and hopefully keep them evenly moist during the stratification period. I am shooting for at least three weeks in the fridge, and I am doing it for the seeds that will be planted inside and outside. Supposedly the stratification process makes the seeds germinate better but also it keeps the germination period from being spread out over a long period of time. Without germination, the seeds might have a few to sprout quickly then a few more later then a few more later etc.
Anyhow I am trying it and I will see how it goes.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Jul 23, 2017 8:48 AM CST
Larry, if I was doing that I would either try to keep the seeds between two cotton balls, or use two cotton pads (like the make-up remover ones) so that the seeds themselves are not touching the sides of the baggie (with the idea that touching the plastic baggie might increase the risk of molding).
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Jul 23, 2017 8:50 AM CST
I am hoping that the peroxide mixture will prevent that, but I will keep an eye on it.
Name: Nikki
Yorkshire, UK (Zone 8a)
LA name-Maelstrom
Dog Lover Cat Lover Rabbit Keeper Container Gardener
Scatterbrain
Jul 23, 2017 8:52 AM CST
Thank you. guys. Thank You!

So I collect my seeds from the pod when they're ready and put them straight in the fridge? I don't dry them off at all first?

Then when do I stratify them, just before I sow them?

Also ----what are "baggies", please?

Off to go and look at that article now.

Thanks again!
[Last edited by Scatterbrain - Jul 23, 2017 8:56 AM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Jul 23, 2017 9:02 AM CST
Some people like to dry them for a day or two. If the pod was a little green and not really brown and dry I would dry it for a day or so also.
Here is a photo of my little baggie with the seeds and cotton ball, the pen is to help show how small they are. I like to lay them on a diary sized lined notebook so my printing is straighter. I am currently using a sharpie with a fine point on one end and an extra fine point on the other to write on the baggies.
Thumb of 2017-07-23/Seedfork/510cbd

Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Jul 23, 2017 9:05 AM CST
Larry, I'm not at all sure that the peroxide will prevent molding but fingers crossed

Scatterbrain, whether they will stratify straight from the pod is a bit of a grey area. When I tried it it did not work, whereas storing them dry and then rehydrating during stratification did work. So maybe you'll want to try both ways and see what works better for you. Most people dry them at least two or three days before refrigerating but it actually more likely takes two or three weeks to get them internally dry.

Yes, you stratify four to six weeks before sowing if you're doing them indoors. In the meantime you can store them dry in the fridge or dry in paper bags at room temperature (which is what I do). Given the humidity in winter in the UK the fridge might be a better option, it gets very dry in the house in winter here in Canada.

Baggie = plastic (usually sandwich) baggie in North America.

I discovered when I came here from the UK that although we technically speak the same language, there are differences in word use and also terminology, sometimes I caused great amusement with using terms that we'd have thought nothing of in the UK but mean something entirely different here.
Name: Nikki
Yorkshire, UK (Zone 8a)
LA name-Maelstrom
Dog Lover Cat Lover Rabbit Keeper Container Gardener
Scatterbrain
Jul 23, 2017 10:38 AM CST
sooby said:Larry, I'm not at all sure that the peroxide will prevent molding but fingers crossed

Scatterbrain, whether they will stratify straight from the pod is a bit of a grey area. When I tried it it did not work, whereas storing them dry and then rehydrating during stratification did work. So maybe you'll want to try both ways and see what works better for you. Most people dry them at least two or three days before refrigerating but it actually more likely takes two or three weeks to get them internally dry.

Yes, you stratify four to six weeks before sowing if you're doing them indoors. In the meantime you can store them dry in the fridge or dry in paper bags at room temperature (which is what I do). Given the humidity in winter in the UK the fridge might be a better option, it gets very dry in the house in winter here in Canada.

Baggie = plastic (usually sandwich) baggie in North America.

I discovered when I came here from the UK that although we technically speak the same language, there are differences in word use and also terminology, sometimes I caused great amusement with using terms that we'd have thought nothing of in the UK but mean something entirely different here.


Yes, I realized that the first time I heard the phrase "fanny pack!" Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing


Thank you all for your help and that article is great too! Have downloaded it for future reference.

Lucky four pods of Honky Tonk Blues X Starchild seem to have been successful, just hoping that the (yet more) torrential rain doesn't knock them off.

Also have pods from Aquamarine and Star Child and Purple Pinwheel X Aquamarine.

Not groundbreaking in the scheme of things but hoping for more 'small and pretty' plants in purple to enjoy! Also crossed Baby Blues and little Fat Cat and Novelty Number and little Fat Cat so hopefully will get some viable seed.

This year is pretty much a practice so that hopefully if my new patterned minis flower next year I can get something nice (added Elfin Illusion, Little Trooper, Small World GoGo Dancer, Boitzer Mandarin, Ledgewood Calico Blues, Rosabelle Van Valkenburgh and Little Sea Sprite all new this year along with some unregistered mini seedlings I liked).

Added some big ones too but small/minis are my real love!

Fingers crossed! Smiling
[Last edited by Scatterbrain - Jul 23, 2017 11:53 AM (+)]
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Name: Ashton & Terry
Jones, OK (Zone 7a)
Windswept Farm & Gardens
Hostas Lilies Hybridizer Keeps Sheep Pollen collector Irises
Hummingbirder Region: United States of America Daylilies Region: Oklahoma Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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kidfishing
Jul 23, 2017 5:18 PM CST
Here are pics of what we do:
Seed pod ready to harvest.
Thumb of 2017-07-23/kidfishing/f4ce62
Seeds from the pod
Thumb of 2017-07-23/kidfishing/f0a7d9
Supplies
Thumb of 2017-07-23/kidfishing/95d738
One small mouthwash cup of moist vermiculite.
Thumb of 2017-07-23/kidfishing/9652c4
One small ziplock bag.
Thumb of 2017-07-23/kidfishing/2a913a
Add seeds
Thumb of 2017-07-23/kidfishing/420563
Tag
Thumb of 2017-07-23/kidfishing/894259
Ready for the fridge.
Thumb of 2017-07-23/kidfishing/749c0a

Kidfishing
Name: Nikki
Yorkshire, UK (Zone 8a)
LA name-Maelstrom
Dog Lover Cat Lover Rabbit Keeper Container Gardener
Scatterbrain
Jul 24, 2017 4:29 AM CST
@kidfishing,

Thank you so much for that Terry and Ashton,

So the pods don't need to go brown? That's useful to know.

I am so envious that you have Little Surfer Girl--LOVE that one, I thought that I had found it in Germany but it is being held back for increasing and apparently is slow to increase in Europe so will be a long time😞.

Can I ask--I believe you have HEARTBREAKER ALEX (DeVito) , how does it perform for you, please? How close to the hybridiser's picture do you find it generally?
Name: Ashton & Terry
Jones, OK (Zone 7a)
Windswept Farm & Gardens
Hostas Lilies Hybridizer Keeps Sheep Pollen collector Irises
Hummingbirder Region: United States of America Daylilies Region: Oklahoma Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
kidfishing
Jul 25, 2017 8:18 PM CST
Heartbreaker Alex has not done that well in our garden. It is a dark eye and edge daylily and only very few blooms have a similar heart shape that is in the photo. I don't have a picture of it that I know of.

We go directly to the moist vermiculite and to the fridge with most seeds. Other than that we direct sow some as well. We go straight from the green cracked pod to cups or pots.
I had asked before but don't think anyone replied, but do others find that some seeds cannot be dried?
Several cultivars that we produce seeds from, must be handled when the pod is green and just gets ripe. If they will dry out they shrivel up and die.
Kidfishing
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Jul 25, 2017 8:21 PM CST
Any names for those cultivars? That is very interesting, something for me to look for in the future.
Name: Ashton & Terry
Jones, OK (Zone 7a)
Windswept Farm & Gardens
Hostas Lilies Hybridizer Keeps Sheep Pollen collector Irises
Hummingbirder Region: United States of America Daylilies Region: Oklahoma Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
kidfishing
Jul 25, 2017 9:52 PM CST
Mythical Art, Waves of Joy, and I think a few more new Florida evergreens. Also evergreen miniatures like Little Surfer Girl. Aston does the tet crosses and he has found this to be a problem with quite a few tet seeds. He was finding so many of his newer tet cross seeds would just appear to dehydrate and shrivel if allowed to dry for 48 hours. We know the seeds were no good as none would sprout so we started direct sowing the ones that we found like this last year. This year it is so hot and dry that all are going directly into the fridge in moist vermiculite. These same ones are no good if the pod is allowed to completely dry on the plant. Typically this is not a problem with most older cultivars and dormants.
Kidfishing
Name: Diana
Lincoln, NE (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Region: Nebraska Organic Gardener Dog Lover Bookworm
Image
ShakespearesGarden
Jul 26, 2017 9:34 AM CST
Interesting... I have a bunch of pods on Edge Ahead that look perfectly content to stay green while a pod on Ocean Spirit is "done" and collected and in the fridge.

Should I crack open a pod off EA and check it? They're way older than the Ocean Spirit pod...
Scout's motto: Be Prepared...
Name: Ashton & Terry
Jones, OK (Zone 7a)
Windswept Farm & Gardens
Hostas Lilies Hybridizer Keeps Sheep Pollen collector Irises
Hummingbirder Region: United States of America Daylilies Region: Oklahoma Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
kidfishing
Jul 26, 2017 9:29 PM CST
I would wait until it just starts to crack or if you can crack it with ease.
I am not sure if there is one way that all seeds can be handled, but going directly from the pod to moist vermiculite gave us almost 100% sprouted seeds last year. My fridge is full of seeds already this year and we probably have about 70% harvested. Our forecast is for a cool down from low 100's to low 90's so I think I will start direct sowing all the remaining seeds from EV and SEV pod parents in to cups and pots. This also worked well for us last year and we were able to plant them in time to get established before winter. I am surprised at the quality of our daylily seeds after such drought and hot temps. It has rained one time in 67 days and we have now had 3 weeks in the upper 90's and low 100's. The plants look really bad now going thru summer heat dormancy.
Kidfishing
Name: Nikki
Yorkshire, UK (Zone 8a)
LA name-Maelstrom
Dog Lover Cat Lover Rabbit Keeper Container Gardener
Scatterbrain
Jul 27, 2017 5:07 AM CST
Thank you again everyone for that information, it is all being added to my notes Thank You! .

I have found a mini propogator with lights which is the right size to go on the basement shelf (which is the only space I have ) so some will be started there in Spring and others will be direct sown outside (I was thinking maybe mid April - May-would that be about right?).

Is it too late to direct sow a few outside for autumn/this year sowing as some are almost ready to collect but would then need 4 weeks for the stratification, that would make it August before they go in the seed pots? Might be a bit late do you think? Confused

We have generally mild winters here but can't always rely on that (we have had the occasional -25degrees Celcius in the last few years but they were exceptionally rare events, just 2 occasions if I remember correctly)

@kidfishing--thanks for the info about HEARTBREAKER ALEX--in the best pics it looks lovely but in others it's a bit bleugh! Thank You!

Will go for either Super Fancy Face or Cosmic Kaleidoscope instead.

Is there much to choose between either of those performance -wise does anyone know?

They both have lots of registered kiddie plants so both would be quite fun to have I think (bearing in mind that this is just a little backgarden hobby for me and just want something nice and interesting to do in my garden).

Cosmic Kaleidoscope looks to be a prettier plant to have in the garden judging from the pics--would anyone/everyone agree? In a small garden that is important to me.

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