Plant ID forum: Twins? Not exactly.

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Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
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joannakat
Aug 19, 2017 1:45 PM CST
Hi all. I have two flowers growing near each other and I thought they were the same plant, a False Sunflower. At least one of them is not.

The leaves are very much alike. The first one is less prolific than the second having only a few stems, but I thought it was because it's planted in a less fertile area that gets less sun and rain. Now I don't think so. Both are between 5 and 6 feet tall.

So here are pictures of the first one. This is the one that is less prolific. Notice the center, and the conical shape of it.

Thumb of 2017-08-19/joannakat/23c9ad

Less mature:
Thumb of 2017-08-19/joannakat/38571c

Bud:
Thumb of 2017-08-19/joannakat/64220d

And here's the second one. It's so prolific with multiple stems, many leaves and lots of buds that it almost looks like a bush. Note the center of the flower and how it differs from the first one. But the most noticeable difference is in the flower bud.
Thumb of 2017-08-19/joannakat/0a2e61 Thumb of 2017-08-19/joannakat/fdf521

Thumb of 2017-08-19/joannakat/00b84e

Bud:
Thumb of 2017-08-19/joannakat/28af3b

As always, your help IDing these is great appreciated. Lovey dubby

AKA Joey.
Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Vermiculture
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joannakat
Aug 20, 2017 3:54 PM CST
Okay, so after some research, I'm pretty sure that the second one is a False Sunflower, but I still have no idea what the first one, the one with the conical center in the mature flower is.

Anyone?

(cricket, cricket....) Crying
AKA Joey.
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
My dogs love me; some people don't.
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greene
Aug 20, 2017 4:21 PM CST
I know nothing but since the crickets are chirping...I'll give it a shot.

Looking in the NGA database using the name 'False Sunflower' I find that there are... Sighing! 14 different false sunflowers (I did not count the 2 variegated ones or the one named Florida False Sunflower).
https://garden.org/plants/sear...

I am having a similar problem with a plant given to me as 'Swamp Sunflower'; I have two distinctly different plants now which only makes me a bigger fan of botanical names.

One thing I have learned since joining this site -
It is not enough to use the common name and not enough to look at the bloom. Often it will be important to look at the foliage, front and back of leaves, leaf arrangement, stem or even the back of the bloom.

Here is a type of Heliopsis -it is Heliopsis helianthoides...one common name is False Sunflower...
http://www.missouribotanicalga...

Maybe if you add more photos of the foliage, leaf arrangement, front and back of bloom, etc. maybe them more folks will chime in to help solve your dilemma Crossing Fingers! .

Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Joanna
North Central Massachusetts (N (Zone 5b)
Life & gardens: make them beautiful
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Vermiculture
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joannakat
Aug 20, 2017 5:28 PM CST
greene said:I know nothing but since the crickets are chirping...I'll give it a shot.

One thing I have learned since joining this site -
It is not enough to use the common name and not enough to look at the bloom. Often it will be important to look at the foliage, front and back of leaves, leaf arrangement, stem or even the back of the bloom.

Here is a type of Heliopsis -it is Heliopsis helianthoides...one common name is False Sunflower...
http://www.missouribotanicalga...

Maybe if you add more photos of the foliage, leaf arrangement, front and back of bloom, etc. maybe them more folks will chime in to help solve your dilemma Crossing Fingers! .



Yup, great idea. If I ever have any complaints about entries in the database, it's usually that there aren't enough pictures of the things you mention. I'll upload some more pics later on.

More to come and Thank You! for chiming in!
AKA Joey.
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Plant Identifier Region: Nebraska Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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KentPfeiffer
Aug 20, 2017 6:29 PM CST

Moderator

Both plants are Heliopsis helianthoides. The differences you are seeing between them are just individual variation.

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