Plant Database forum: Interspecific Hybrids of Hardy Hibiscus

Views: 408, Replies: 11 » Jump to the end
Name: Danita
GA (Zone 7b)
Charter ATP Member Forum moderator Hummingbirder Salvias Butterflies Birds
Plant Identifier Vegetable Grower Container Gardener Seed Starter Cat Lover Region: Georgia
Image
Danita
Aug 24, 2017 12:23 PM CST
Hi,

I was wondering why most of the interspecific hybrids of hardy Hibiscus are being listed in the database as straight Hibiscus moscheutos when they clearly aren't.

A few examples:
Hybrid Hardy Hibiscus (Hibiscus 'Lady Baltimore')
Hybrid Hardy Hibiscus (Hibiscus 'Lord Baltimore')
Rose Mallow (Hibiscus moscheutos 'Midnight Marvel')
Hardy Hibiscus (Hibiscus moscheutos Summerific™ Starry Starry Night)

...and many more.

Also, we have a listing for


"Texas Star" is just a common name for Hibiscus coccineus. I've never seen it listed as a proper or distinguishable cultivar.

Thanks! Smiling
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Aug 24, 2017 2:18 PM CST

Plants Admin

Those pesky interspecific hybrid hardy hibiscuses were one of the reasons that all of the custom hibiscus databases (Tropical, Hardy, etc.) were once combined in one database. Now they have been separated again, and the problem has reared its head again. In the case of your four examples, unless the cultivar entry includes a species name associated with hardy hibiscuses, the entry will not be part of the Hardy Hibiscus Database. This could lead to inefficient and confusing groupings, keeping one cultivar of the Summerific series separate from others, for example.

I personally preferred having all of the hibiscuses in one custom database. The fact that different hibiscus species have different characteristics and growing conditions probably shouldn't be viewed as a rationale for splitting the plants into several different custom databases. We don't do that for irises, for instance, although there are significant differences in the growing conditions and characteristics of bearded irises, Japanese irises, Louisiana irises, Dutch irises, etc. All of them are in one Iris Database, as they should be.
Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Image
plantladylin
Aug 24, 2017 5:32 PM CST
zuzu said: I personally preferred having all of the hibiscuses in one custom database. The fact that different hibiscus species have different characteristics and growing conditions probably shouldn't be viewed as a rationale for splitting the plants into several different custom databases. We don't do that for irises, for instance, although there are significant differences in the growing conditions and characteristics of bearded irises, Japanese irises, Louisiana irises, Dutch irises, etc. All of them are in one Iris Database, as they should be.


I agree

~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Image
plantladylin
Aug 24, 2017 5:41 PM CST
I also noticed on The Hibiscus Database page, the first section:

About hibiscus (shouldn't the word hibiscus be capitalized?) It states "Hibiscus are deciduous shrubs".

We grow lots of Hibiscus rosa-sinensis as landscape shrubs here in Florida and they are Evergreen.
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Aug 24, 2017 6:55 PM CST

Plants Admin

That section has something else you might question. It also says that the blooms can be "up to 6 inches in diameter," but you know that H. rosa-sinensis blooms are often larger than that.

This seemingly incorrect information stems from the decision to separate the Hibiscus Database from the Tropical Hibiscuses Database, the Hardy Hibiscuses Database, and the Roses of Sharon Database. The resulting, more limited Hibiscus Database should not contain any entries or information pertaining to those three other types of hibiscuses, but it does. It contains entries for cultivars without a species name, for example, and I once did make an effort to look up those entries and add them to the appropriate plant-specific databases, but I spend less time on the site now and I haven't been keeping up with the new entries. I suspect I was also the one who added moscheutos and other species names to cultivars that might be hybrids, simply because I wanted them to be in the correct plant-specific database and there was no other way to do it.

There's also some inconsistency in the choice of the plural form of the genus. The section you quoted treats "hibiscus" as the plural instead of the more correct "hibiscuses."
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator
Image
Australis
Aug 24, 2017 7:05 PM CST

Plants Admin

A few thoughts. Is there currently a moderator for the Hibiscus databases? Would it be worth proposing that these are recombined? Who are the stakeholders in this issue?
Plant Authorities: Catalogue of Life (Species) --- International Cultivar Registration Authorities (Cultivars) --- RHS Orchid Register --- RHS Lilium Register
My Notes: Orchid Genera HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Traits HTML PDF --- Lilium Species Crosses HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Species Diagram
The current profile image is that of Iris 'Volcanic Glow'.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Aug 24, 2017 7:54 PM CST

Plants Admin

I was the moderator of the Tropical Hibiscus Database when it was created and then of the entire Hibiscus Database when it was combined, but there is no moderator for any of the four current hibiscus databases.
Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Image
plantladylin
Aug 25, 2017 10:22 AM CST
zuzu said: there is no moderator for any of the four current hibiscus databases.

Sad

I get very confused with Hibiscuses and just posted on the Plant Database Forum about a Tropical Hibiscus series that I saw advertised by a local nursery in our newspaper today but couldn't find the names when searching our database. https://garden.org/thread/view...

~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Aug 25, 2017 11:37 AM CST

Plants Admin

Some companies give their own names to existing cultivars, muddying the waters. This could be one of those cases.
Name: Lin
Florida Zone 9b, 10a

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Image
plantladylin
Aug 25, 2017 11:46 AM CST
Aha, I didn't even think of that and I couldn't really find out much about that website called Hollywood Hibiscus.
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot! ~


Name: Danita
GA (Zone 7b)
Charter ATP Member Forum moderator Hummingbirder Salvias Butterflies Birds
Plant Identifier Vegetable Grower Container Gardener Seed Starter Cat Lover Region: Georgia
Image
Danita
Sep 26, 2017 7:29 AM CST
Another oddity...
Why are the hardy Hibiscus (H. coccineus, H. moscheutos, etc.) listed as being shrubs when they aren't? They are herbaceous perennials. They could be described as "shrubby herbaceous perennials" but they aren't actual shrubs. Now, Hibiscus rosa-sinensis and Hibiscus syriacus are proper shrubs.

Shrug!
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Image
zuzu
Sep 26, 2017 1:33 PM CST

Plants Admin

That probably dates back to when all of the hibiscuses were in a single database. I can remove the "shrub" designation from the hardy hibiscuses and change it to "herb/forb," but the change won't affect the entries you're removing from the Hardy Hibiscus database by deleting the species, so you'll have to do that on your own.

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Plant Database forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Member Login:

Username:

Password:

[ Join now ]

Today's site banner is by rocklady and is called "NOID Daylily"