Propagation forum: crabapple propagation

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Name: Josh Segoviano
El paso (Zone 8b)
Overgrown_suncity
Aug 27, 2017 8:48 PM CST
I am starting a big grand project and have little money I was wondering if it was possible to propagate crabapples , cherry's and other ornamental fruit trees from cuttings without grafting them. Any advice ?
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Aug 28, 2017 10:12 AM CST
You can try but remember that most of these trees have been grafted onto a reliable/hardy/predictable rootstock. No telling what will happen if you just take cuttings and skip the grafting process, but it's always worth a shot.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Josh Segoviano
El paso (Zone 8b)
Overgrown_suncity
Aug 28, 2017 10:27 AM CST
I'm gonna try on some crabapples that I have in my front yard and see what happens along with that I have a snow fountain tree I was gonna take a cutting of ....watch this space!
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Aug 28, 2017 3:59 PM CST
Thumbs up
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Daniel Erdy
Catawba SC (Zone 7b)
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ediblelandscapingsc
Sep 4, 2017 9:09 PM CST
some trees can be grown from cuttings, but most are difficult to root. You should try layering them for the best results. mound layering works great on apple trees but they can't be grafted plants to mound layer. Google search air layering, mound layering, and trench layering. There should also be a few videos online about it.
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Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN, USA zon
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Leftwood
Sep 5, 2017 8:54 AM CST
With apples and crabapples, softwood cuttings may be successful, depending on the particular variety, but hardwood cuttings are very difficult even for experienced propagators. A softwood cutting includes only the part of the twig that has recently grown. The stem will be supple and succulent, and not turning stiff. You will need 4-6 inch cuttings that are likely not available at this time of year. Late spring-early summer is the best time to harvest. Additionally, a rooting hormone of IBA, 5000-15,000ppm is normally needed.

So it is always fun (and educational) to just try what is readily available to you, but what I am saying is, don't be heartbroken if your efforts fail. You could use the general instructions I give here for rooting phlox:
https://garden.org/frogs/view/...
Name: Josh Segoviano
El paso (Zone 8b)
Overgrown_suncity
Sep 5, 2017 11:43 AM CST
where can I find rooting hormone?
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN, USA zon
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Leftwood
Sep 5, 2017 12:37 PM CST
In general, most of the rooting hormones one finds in retail outlets are ftoo weak for woody plants. If the product has IAA in it, that's OK, but it must have the IBA in addition. You need to look at the fine print ingredients. You may find them at a local real nursery (not a big box nursery like Lowes), but you can easily order online.

0.1%=1000ppm.
IBA=Indole-3-butyric acid
IAA=Indole-3-acetic acid
Name: Deb
Pacific NW (Zone 8b)
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Bonehead
Sep 5, 2017 12:52 PM CST
Or stick in a bucket of willow whips which release some sort of rooting homone.
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Name: Daniel Erdy
Catawba SC (Zone 7b)
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ediblelandscapingsc
Sep 5, 2017 8:52 PM CST
willow water is not strong enough to root apple cuttings. I agree with Rick softwood cuttings would be your only option along with a good hormone just don't have too high of hopes. Misting will be a full time job along with fighting mold and fungus because of the frequent misting. layering is a much more reliable and easier option but if your heart is set on rooting cuttings give it a shot it won't hurt anything to try. Thumbs up
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Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN, USA zon
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
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Leftwood
Sep 6, 2017 8:10 AM CST
The very, very tiny bit of hormone extractable in many willow species' "willow sticks" is NAA. Even at a high concentration, it would not be effective. What is touted to be extracted from willow stems is a salicylic acid (aspirin) derivative, not a rooting hormone. It's supposed interaction should be thought of as a possible helping aid for rooting. It is not a hormone and does not initiate the rooting process.

If you choose the method I outlined, misting is not necessary, and in fact, would be bad. There should be close to 100% humidity, and constant opening of the bag just introduces more pathogens. Any mold that occurs signifies that the individual cutting is already dead, or partially dead and so far down the road to death that it could never root, anyway.

In at least 25 different batches, I have rooted several hundred woody cuttings this way (not to mention herbaceous materials). Never have I had a problem with mold or fungus beyond what I mentioned. I suspect, Daniel, that if you are using a method that requires misting, then you are not misting enough and the cuttings become too stressed, and invite disease infection that way. See pic below. These are Thujopsis dolbrata cuttings, stuck in February 2017. About half of the original batch had previously rooted and were removed and planted in soil. Theses are the remaining cuttings that are stubborn and have not rooted yet. They are still very healthy.

Thumb of 2017-09-06/Leftwood/9eeaa8

N.B. The claim that "leaves of cuttings must never touch each other" is a farce. However, leaves need light, and if they shade each other too much, that will be bad.

edited to correct grammar
[Last edited by Leftwood - Sep 11, 2017 9:47 PM (+)]
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Name: Josh Segoviano
El paso (Zone 8b)
Overgrown_suncity
Sep 10, 2017 10:58 PM CST
where can I found this hormone sold and for how much?
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN, USA zon
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Hybridizer
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Leftwood
Sep 11, 2017 9:53 PM CST
Leftwood said:You may find them at a local real nursery (not a big box nursery like Lowes), but you can easily order online.


This is one place:
https://hormex.com/product-cat...
Name: Daniel Erdy
Catawba SC (Zone 7b)
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ediblelandscapingsc
Sep 18, 2017 10:01 PM CST
Rick I didn't know you was talking about using the bag method. I agree that in a bag there is no need for misting. Thumbs up
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vurbil
Nov 28, 2017 6:58 AM CST
The way to propagate an existing apple tree would be multi-staged (and probably not worth the effort in a practical sense, though very fun for a gardener who loves this stuff):

1. Mound layer the rootstock. Or I believe many apple rootstocks sucker quite vigorously.
2. Grow your new rootstock for a year.
3. Bud graft the top stock of the original tree onto your new rootstock. (Could also use another grafting method, but bud grafting seems to be the easiest and I believe it works very well with apple.)

There's not really any place for rooting cuttings when it comes to apple because it is not something that is grown on its own roots.

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