Propagation forum: Hybrid cutting

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Name: Mike Jones
Tarlton, OH (Zone 5b)
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m33jones2
Sep 17, 2017 11:40 PM CST
I don't understand how this works or doesn't work. There's so much junk to go through on the internet that I get tired of looking before I find what I'm after. Does anyone know...
If I would take a cutting from a hybrid, and if I understand right, it will grow to be just like the parent? And if it is, and I saved seeds from it, would they grow to be like the plant I got them from, out would they be the same as the seeds from the first plant? And can you explain it to me, or maybe give me a link to an explanation of how that works?
Thanks.
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
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Baja_Costero
Sep 19, 2017 10:40 AM CST
It would be helpful to have a specific example in mind, but yes, the hybrid cutting should grow like the parent. The seeds from the hybrid would not necessarily grow true. (In most cases you can assume not.)

Original cross
==
AA x BB (assuming diploid homozygous parents) = AB hybrid (one copy of each gene from each parent)

Hybrid seed
==
AB hybrid x self = a mix of the following, with the relative assortment given by Mendelian genetics:

AA (like the first parent, but likely different elsewhere in the genome) 25%
AB (like the hybrid, same caveat) 50%
BB (like the second parent, same caveat) 25%

Now whether the hybrid seed breeds true or whether it looks true are two different questions. Seed from a hybrid crossed with itself tends to be very mixed up across the board, not just limited to the particular locus (genetic region) you're interested in (what I have labeled A or B above). So the offspring may be larger or smaller, for example, but have the same type of flowers. Or the opposite, very much a mixed bag.

In some cases the offspring of a self-pollinated hybrid may look indistinguishable (or roughly so) from the hybrid itself, but they will be different genetically, and continued self-pollination will likely result in unusual traits coming out over time.

Does that help? Smiling
[Last edited by Baja_Costero - Sep 19, 2017 10:41 AM (+)]
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Name: Mike Jones
Tarlton, OH (Zone 5b)
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m33jones2
Sep 19, 2017 11:24 AM CST
Sort of. It's nice to know. But what I was wondering is, if the cutting from a hybrid is like the hybrid it was cut from, would the seeds from the plant that cutting grows into be the same as the seeds from the plant it was cut from?
If there was a hybrid rose bush, and I took a cutting and it grew, and I saved seeds from it, would the seeds grow to be like the plant they came from, or would they be just like seeds from the hybrid?
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
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Baja_Costero
Sep 19, 2017 11:35 AM CST
The seeds from a rooted cutting should be the same as the seeds from the original plant, providing pollination works the same for both.

The self-pollinated hybrid seed should produce plants that are close to the original hybrid, but usually different in enough ways that they cannot go by the same name. You'll get in the ballpark, but the offspring of a hybrid crossed with itself are never identical to the hybrid because the genetics are different.

As an example there is an aloe hybrid called "Doran Black" which is said by some to breed true when allowed to self-pollinate. This is actually an oversimplification and has led to "large" and "small" clones (you can imagine the other differences) being given the same name. "Doran Black" offsets regularly and is very easy to propagate vegetatively. But the more generations of seedling propagation you do, the less the seedling offspring will resemble the original parent (which is already a hybrid of hybrids, most likely), especially if there is selection involved.

Aloe 'Doran Black'
[Last edited by Baja_Costero - Sep 19, 2017 1:29 PM (+)]
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Name: Mike Jones
Tarlton, OH (Zone 5b)
Organic Gardener Region: Ohio Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Seed Starter Native Plants and Wildflowers
Dog Lover Canning and food preservation Heirlooms
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m33jones2
Sep 19, 2017 11:47 AM CST
That helps. Thank You!
Name: greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Sep 27, 2017 1:41 PM CST
Cuttings are an exact clone of whatever you took the cutting from.

Seeds are a crap shoot. You may get plants similar to one parent or the other parent but there is never any guarantee what you will get. Plus, some hybrid plants produce seeds that are sterile.

If you want a sure thing, I'd go with the cuttings. Thumbs up

If you are looking for adventure, go with the seeds.
Or do both.
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Name: Daniel Erdy
Catawba SC (Zone 7b)
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ediblelandscapingsc
Jan 14, 2018 7:17 PM CST
I agree Seeds are a crap shoot and they could be sterile or self incompatible. if they do germinate the new seedling could revert back to something like a distant wild rose. This happens often with Asian pear seeds, apple seeds, and other plants in the rose family Rosaceae.
If the rose was just an example then pay the above no mind. Some plants like sunflowers and mint produce plants that are very close to the original hybrid if no other plants are grown near by to pollinate them. if the plant is self incompatible and needs pollen from another parent the offspring will not be similar to the original plant but there is always a chance it could be better. I think the odds of getting a better rose than the parent plant is something like 1 in 1000 or up there but there is still a chance and these flowers are usually hand pollinated.
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