Plant ID forum: Cedrus deodara, Deodar cedar

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San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
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NCRAS
Oct 8, 2017 11:36 PM CST
This is a lovely tree. One of my favorites on the property. I planted some black bamboo on the south side of this tree.
Thumb of 2017-10-09/NCRAS/1d54b3

Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it!
[Last edited by NCRAS - Oct 8, 2017 11:44 PM (+)]
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Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Oct 9, 2017 10:20 AM CST
Could you post a photo of the entire tree? Are there any mature cones on the ground you could show us?
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Salt Spring Island, BC (Zone 8b)
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islander
Oct 9, 2017 12:43 PM CST
Cedrus atlantica (Glauca Group)
He who plants a garden plants happiness.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Oct 9, 2017 1:56 PM CST
I'm not sure Cedrus atlantica would grow in the San Jaoquin Valley. But I've been wrong before. Smiling

More photos will be helpful.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Salt Spring Island, BC (Zone 8b)
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islander
Oct 9, 2017 2:18 PM CST
Your comment makes no sense. The San Joaquin Valley is a similar climate to where Cedrus atlantica comes from in the Atlas mountains of north western Africa. There's no reason why it can't grow there and likely does. Cedrus libani could be another possibility.
He who plants a garden plants happiness.
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
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NCRAS
Oct 9, 2017 11:21 PM CST
If this is not a good enough photo, I will take a better one later this week. This was clipped from a random photo.
Thumb of 2017-10-10/NCRAS/ea4706

Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it!
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Oct 10, 2017 12:27 AM CST
It might be a Deodar Cedar also.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

Webmaster: osnnv.org
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
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NCRAS
Oct 14, 2017 8:18 AM CST
I can be almost certain that it is not a Deodar Cedar since this tree is right next to them and this one has those mini-cones. I do not think it produces big cones. I have included three more photos. Thanks again for everyone's help!

Thumb of 2017-10-14/NCRAS/cbd7aa
Thumb of 2017-10-14/NCRAS/185bd1
Thumb of 2017-10-14/NCRAS/723801

Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it!
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Oct 14, 2017 11:50 AM CST
Those mini-cones are the male flowers. The female flowers (cones) will be in the upper part of the tree - you won't see them until they fall.

The male flowers will be opening in the next couple mounts and shedding yellow pollin everywhere.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

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Name: Deb
Pacific NW (Zone 8b)
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Bonehead
Oct 14, 2017 1:58 PM CST
I'm thinking spruce of some sort. No, wait, how about hemlock?
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[Last edited by Bonehead - Oct 14, 2017 1:59 PM (+)]
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Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Oct 14, 2017 3:19 PM CST
Its got to be something that will handle a couple months of 100+ heat in the summer and barely freezing in the winter. I don't know of any Spruce or Hemlock trees that will survive that.

The Atlas Cedar is too upright - this tree is very graceful and drooping. I still think its a Deodar Cedar.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

Webmaster: osnnv.org
Name: Archivesgirl
Salisbury, MD (Zone 7b)
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Archivesgirl
Oct 14, 2017 7:37 PM CST
It is Cedrus atlantica, the Atlas cedar. Here's a link that shows the female and male and their cones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... The second photo down shows the male with cones. Wouldn't you agree?

Gayle
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Oct 14, 2017 9:12 PM CST
No, I would call it Cedrus deodara but what do I know. Oh, wait. I grew up there.

Edited to say: Sorry for being snippy. It is up to the OP to decide because they are standing under the tree. But, the cones are in the top branches and not usually seen until they fall. That could take 2 or 3 years. The droopy nature of this tree, along with location, all point to Deodar Cedar.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

Webmaster: osnnv.org
[Last edited by DaisyI - Oct 14, 2017 9:46 PM (+)]
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Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
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HamiltonSquare
Oct 14, 2017 10:39 PM CST
I thought it was one of the above mentioned, C. libani, and then to look for a way to ID it. Not so simple it seems. Plus there are cultivars. Shrug! This was a statement from the Journal of Arboriculture - July 2000.

"The morphological differences between C. libani and C. atlantica are small and not entirely constant (Maheshwari and Biswas 1970; Farjon 1990)."


joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=2896&Type=2
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
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NCRAS
Oct 14, 2017 11:45 PM CST
OK, thank you everyone for your input. Perhaps my poor photos contributed to the differing opinions. If this is in fact a deodar cedar, then I do not have a correct ID on the following tree: The thread "Deodar Cedar" in Plant ID forum

Thumb of 2017-10-15/NCRAS/994297
Thumb of 2017-10-15/NCRAS/91f599

Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it!
Name: Archivesgirl
Salisbury, MD (Zone 7b)
Cat Lover Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Critters Allowed Region: Maryland Birds
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Archivesgirl
Oct 15, 2017 8:54 AM CST
@NCRAS,
This is a learning experience for me. Thanks for posting such an intriguing plant ID question. I found this about Cedars so it may be that it is, indeed, a Deodar Cedar. The difference between the two (Deodar and Atlas) seems to be needle length and cone length:

https://oregonstate.edu/trees/...

Gayle
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Oct 15, 2017 9:28 PM CST
The best way to differentiate a Deodar from any other cedar is to stand back and look at the entire tree.

Deodar Cedar have a graceful drooping outline. Even the top has a droop to it. I ID'd the first tree from closeups - I don't remember seeing a photo of the entire tree. But, as you live in San Joaquin Co, that was my first thought. They are the most common Cedars in California.

There are few enough Atlas Cedars in California that Cal Poly keeps a list of were you can go look at one. In silhouette, they seem very stiff and upright.

There are some Lebonon Cedars in the Bay area but I don't know of any others. Their silhouette is also very distinctive and also stiff and upright.

You can't really go on needle length as the descriptions are for trees in perfect conditions and needle length is too variable. You haven't shown us any cones yet.

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

Webmaster: osnnv.org
Salt Spring Island, BC (Zone 8b)
Dahlias Region: Pacific Northwest Cut Flowers Keeper of Poultry Region: Canadian Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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islander
Oct 15, 2017 9:36 PM CST
The colour is wrong for a Deodar Cedar. It is a common tree where I am as are the Atlas Cedar.
He who plants a garden plants happiness.
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Birds Region: California Fruit Growers Dragonflies Butterflies Bee Lover
Amaryllis Tomato Heads Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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NCRAS
Oct 15, 2017 9:46 PM CST
OK, this has been a real education for me. Two other trees previously identified as Deodar Cedar are about 12 feet from each other and this tree is about 25 feet away. They look different. And those small cones that are all over this tree do no appear on the other tree BUT, after closer inspection, the other two trees have some of those small cones at the top, lets say top third of the tree. I am not sure if this tree was planted at a different time or received less water, but again, after closer inspection, they are all the same tree. Thank you Daisy for your persistence on this and everyone else for chiming in. I would say my greatest confusion aside from not paying more attention to detail, is that new growth is much different than mature growth in regard to needle clusters and frankly, when standing back from the trees, this tree has a slightly different color, a blueish tinge? (I have a slight color deficiency). I did not post a photo of the only cone I found as I was not sure which tree it came from. But as Daisy said, stand back and the overall confirmation is the same. And new growth has individual needles and the more mature branches have clusters that are on both sides of the branch/twig. I will be much more careful in the future. Again, thanks to everyone!

Thumb of 2017-10-16/NCRAS/8139df
Thumb of 2017-10-16/NCRAS/0e7e74

Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it!
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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DaisyI
Oct 15, 2017 10:20 PM CST
NCRAS, The "cones" on the bottom of the tree are the male flowers. They should ripen and start releasing pollen in the next month or so. The female flowers (the cones) are in the top of the tree. The female cones disintegrate in the tree - you will never pick cones up off the ground.

That cone is not from any of the Cedars we have been discussing. It looks like a pine cone.

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

Webmaster: osnnv.org

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