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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Nov 9, 2017 4:31 PM CST

Plants Admin

"Patio plant" probably is something you can grow in a container, so that's the checkbox to use for a patio plant. "Ornamental plant" is almost any plant, so it's not a useful piece of information. I don't know how many people are misled by the "Patio/Ornamental/Small Tree" phrase. If a lot of people are, perhaps it should be changed to "Patio Tree" or "Small Tree."
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Nov 9, 2017 4:31 PM CST
hmm ... I do wonder if that needs to be changed or re-worded. The subject says "Suitable Locations". A suitable location for a tree could be in the ground in the yard or, (depending on it's size) in a container on the patio, Green Grin!
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: United States of America Deer Region: Florida Charter ATP Member Million Pollinator Garden Challenge I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Nov 9, 2017 4:32 PM CST
So, by "Patio Tree" do you mean a tree planted in the ground, next to and perhaps shading the patio?
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Nov 9, 2017 4:35 PM CST

Plants Admin

Baja, I already removed it from the echeveria parent plant and all of the echeveria entries. Was it added to any other genus in a multi-plant data proposal?
Name: Deb
Planet Earth (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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Bonehead
Nov 9, 2017 4:37 PM CST
I don't think I've ever checked that box because I had no idea what it meant.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Nov 9, 2017 4:44 PM CST

Plants Admin

"Suitable locations" might be a misnomer. "Topiary" and "Espalier" are not locations, after all, and "Alpine Gardening" doesn't mean that you have to climb a high mountain to grow your plant, but everyone understands what these checkboxes mean. A "patio tree" is a small ornamental tree. You can grow it in the ground or in a large container, and not necessarily on your patio.
[Last edited by zuzu - Nov 9, 2017 4:46 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1582904 (6)
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
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Baja_Costero
Nov 9, 2017 4:45 PM CST
Zuzu, after thinking about this again, I'm going to pass on those repair jobs. Any succulent that I would consider a patio/ornamental plant (even small trees) would have gotten this box checked when I revised it. That's a lot of plants, basically all of them. I'm sorry but maybe some other day I will be up to the task. Thank you for clarifying the purpose of that checkbox so I stop using it.

I think the absolutist, reductionist approach is not always helpful in this area. Isn't it better to use the descriptors to define useful working locations or uses for plants? Isn't it okay some of them overlap partially? Please do not take my criticism as anything other than an attempt to make the database work better.

Sure, erosion control is something that just about all plants with roots can do. But are they all the same? Try the experiment and tell me what you learn. Smiling

Sure, all container plants can theoretically be patio plants, but would they be in practice? Sure, all plants are ornamental (even the ugly ones, one of my specialties Smiling ), but are they all equally so? Sure, all plants require good drainage in containers, but do they all require excellent drainage?

Is there not a difference between ornamental and edible plants which more or less (lots of gray area obviously) divides them into a useful categories in the database? The patio (plant)/ornamental (plant)/small tree category seemed perfect for people who want outdoor container plants close to home, to look at and not to eat (necessarily)... even if it overlaps substantially with other areas. That's why I grew quite comfortable with it... seemed useful. It describes my very limited patio gardening situation perfectly, and by limited I mean excluding all the plants which need to be in the ground, and all the edible/crop plants, but intentionally including small trees as perhaps an upper limit in size. Oh well, my overly active imagination. Rolling my eyes.

Sorry for the off-topic detour, but it has resulted in improvements to the database. Thumbs up

@Dave, do you think it might be possible to add "Cactus/Succulent" to that drop down menu you just created? (Where's the wink emoji?) Smiling I guess that's not a gallery. Oh well.
[Last edited by Baja_Costero - Nov 9, 2017 8:33 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1582905 (7)
Name: Deb
Planet Earth (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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Bonehead
Nov 9, 2017 5:04 PM CST
I have no idea what a guardian plant is, have often wondered that when editing plant data, but not curious enough (I guess) to research it.

I just opened a random plant to look at the choices again, and it happened to be a daylily. Yowsie, whole different set of choices there. I would have never known, and assume they make sense to the DL people. It was mostly Greek to me!

I think we are all kind of keyed in to different things. I am always curious about the herbal use of plants, which normally (but not always) falls under the 'medicinal' checkbox. If I do check that, I also try to add something in the comment section to clarify which parts have been used and for what. I usually use kind of vague terms, e.g., an infusion may be helpful for coughs. Hopefully anyone else interested in herbal use will do additional research before randomly mixing up and drinking a pot of tea.

Getting a bit off topic, but interesting discussion.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Roses Clematis
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Calif_Sue
Nov 9, 2017 7:20 PM CST

Plants Admin

Maybe the "Patio/Ornamental/Small Tree" can be changed to "Tree: Patio/Ornamental/Small"
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Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator Avid Green Pages Reviewer
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Australis
Nov 9, 2017 8:19 PM CST

Plants SuperMod

I agree If anything, I think this discussion has shown that some of the descriptors can be easily misunderstood and rephrasing for clarity would be a good idea.
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Name: Deb
Planet Earth (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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Bonehead
Nov 9, 2017 8:35 PM CST
Fine-tuning is almost always good. Tweak things that might be confusing.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Nov 13, 2017 11:16 PM CST
Zuzu, that category is listed in the Sempervivum database. It could just be removed.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Nov 14, 2017 12:26 AM CST

Plants Admin

Are you talking about "Patio/Ornamental/Small Tree," Lynn? I ran a search for it in Sempervivums and that box hadn't been checked for any of them.
Name: Frenchy
Falls Church, VA (Zone 7b)
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Frenchy21
Nov 14, 2017 1:06 AM CST
I think it is also in the Echinopsis database.
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Nov 14, 2017 1:31 AM CST
Zuzu, I thought you might like to just remove it, just in case?
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Roses Clematis
Houseplants Foliage Fan Keeper of Poultry Dog Lover Birds Hummingbirder
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Calif_Sue
Nov 14, 2017 1:44 AM CST

Plants Admin

That's listed for all plants in the database as an option to check.
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Nov 14, 2017 2:51 AM CST

Plants Admin

Thank you, Frenchy. It was checked in all of the Echinopsis entries, so I removed it.
Greece (Zone 10b)
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Faridat
Nov 14, 2017 3:42 AM CST
Thank You! That is such a nice feature!
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Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
Nov 14, 2017 9:24 AM CST
I see. Thank you Sue.

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